Discussion:
Cyberbully Prevention Software
Nevyn
2011-06-25 11:03:00 UTC
Permalink
I'm wondering if anyone has looked into software for preventing cyber
bullying. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases. Does anything like this exist within the
open source realm?

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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Roger Irwin
2011-06-25 11:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

It wouldn't be hard to write something. Install a keylogger and then
check the results against an array of words or phrases. This could then
take a screen shot and generate an email.
Post by Nevyn
I'm wondering if anyone has looked into software for preventing cyber
bullying. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases. Does anything like this exist within the
open source realm?
Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
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Simon Bridge
2011-06-25 13:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
I'm wondering if anyone has looked into software for preventing cyber
bullying. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases. Does anything like this exist within the
open source realm?
This would involve getting malware onto someone's computer ... also
watching people through their webcams is creepy. To top it all off, this
is ultimately ineffective - how long before people bully from computers
without cameras or just cover the camera with a bit of paper?

This is not something that can be solved with software. You need to deal
with the social situation which leads to the behaviour you want to stop.


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Nevyn
2011-06-25 20:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Bridge
Post by Nevyn
I'm wondering if anyone has looked into software for preventing cyber
bullying. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases. Does anything like this exist within the
open source realm?
This would involve getting malware onto someone's computer ... also
watching people through their webcams is creepy. To top it all off, this
is ultimately ineffective - how long before people bully from computers
without cameras or just cover the camera with a bit of paper?
This is not something that can be solved with software. You need to deal
with the social situation which leads to the behaviour you want to stop.
Dude! When was a webcam ever mentioned? We're talking about a screen
shot. Schools have a mandate to protect their kids from this sort of
stuff and must be able to demonstrate that they are taking steps to
stop it. No snooping involved. Users would be told that this is
exactly what's going on.

And I agree with you. It's a social situation. In meat space the
problem exists, except you're a lot more likely to see the incident...

This is common practise in the UK apparently.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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Volker Kuhlmann
2011-06-25 23:45:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
Dude! When was a webcam ever mentioned? We're talking about a screen
shot. Schools have a mandate to protect their kids from this sort of
stuff and must be able to demonstrate that they are taking steps to
stop it. No snooping involved.
Sounds exactly like snooping to me. Some school in the US of A got their
bums kicked about that big way. I would find it dubious practice too,
and legally questionable. I fail to see a difference between webcam and
screenshot. It's a serious invasion.

Just because teachers can't teach their pupils how to behave they're
palming off the problem to suppliers of dubious software. Reminds me of
the webfilter problem.

Volker
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Nevyn
2011-06-26 00:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Volker Kuhlmann
Post by Nevyn
Dude! When was a webcam ever mentioned? We're talking about a screen
shot. Schools have a mandate to protect their kids from this sort of
stuff and must be able to demonstrate that they are taking steps to
stop it. No snooping involved.
Sounds exactly like snooping to me. Some school in the US of A got their
bums kicked about that big way. I would find it dubious practice too,
and legally questionable. I fail to see a difference between webcam and
screenshot. It's a serious invasion.
Just because teachers can't teach their pupils how to behave they're
palming off the problem to suppliers of dubious software. Reminds me of
the webfilter problem.
Volker
Remembering of course that schools have completely different concerns.
They're effectively acting as agents of the parents and have a duty of
care to do all that they can to keep the kids safe during school
hours.

The responsibility is still with the parents and teachers but that
doesn't mean you shouldn't have teachers ... patrolling the school
grounds during recess or lunch and keeping and eye out for kids being
isolated from their peers or outright bullying.

The software meets a real and practical need regardless of whether you
think it's dubious or not. I think Spreadsheets are dubious but that
doesn't mean I don't think there should be an opensource solution for
them. Personally I'd be much happier being able to see the hueristics
used rather than a closed piece of software which may certainly be
doing something dubious. Assuming that schools are going to want this
type of software (and they do) then it'd be silly for there not to be:

a) An open dialogue about it looking at it from a school's perspective.
b) An opensource solution or, failing that, looking at real life
practical solutions not requiring such software.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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Stephen
2011-06-26 01:34:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 12:13:36 +1200
Post by Nevyn
Post by Nevyn
Dude! When was a webcam ever mentioned? We're talking about a
screen shot. Schools have a mandate to protect their kids from
this sort of stuff and must be able to demonstrate that they are
taking steps to stop it. No snooping involved.
The software meets a real and practical need
Does it? Accepting that the need is real and practical*, the concept
sounds like something an eight year old could easily evade.

F V K K U!

*ahem*

See, my strategy at home has been this:
- no computers in bed rooms
- I know your login password, and I reserve the right to use it
- If you use the computer in the study, I reserve the right to burst in
at any time
- trying to create an environment where questions like "why don't those
people have any clothes on?" were asked and dealt with early on,
creating a sane and sensible attitude (as I see it) in the child as
she has grown older.

In a school context, I don't see why you would be allowing email, chat
or Facebook use on school computers. Let parents enforce their own
policies for these things at home.

At any rate, thinking through a fair policy on usage, and thinking
about things like making it easy for teachers to wander along and look
over your shoulder, strikes me as a better and more practical response
than buying what sounds like a pretty flaky solution.

I see that Netsafe's recommendations in this area are entirely about
social and policy solutions, not technical ones. Interesting, eh.

I'd say the fact that there is no obvious free software solution here
is because it doesn't scratch an itch. I certainly would never bother
implementing the concept, because I think it's silly. The absence of a
free solution should be taken as a clue that it's not a problem with an
obvious technical answer.

Stephen

* those of us who date back to the days of scare stories about kids
blowing themselves up with bomb recipes learned off the internet are
naturally inclined to think there is an element of moral panic here.

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Nevyn
2011-06-26 02:17:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen
*ahem*
- no computers in bed rooms
- I know your login password, and I reserve the right to use it
- If you use the computer in the study, I reserve the right to burst in
 at any time
- trying to create an environment where questions like "why don't those
 people have any clothes on?" were asked and dealt with early on,
 creating a sane and sensible attitude (as I see it) in the child as
 she has grown older.
In a school context, I don't see why you would be allowing email, chat
or Facebook use on school computers. Let parents enforce their own
policies for these things at home.
At any rate, thinking through a fair policy on usage, and thinking
about things like making it easy for teachers to wander along and look
over your shoulder, strikes me as a better and more practical response
than buying what sounds like a pretty flaky solution.
I see that Netsafe's recommendations in this area are entirely about
social and policy solutions, not technical ones. Interesting, eh.
I'd say the fact that there is no obvious free software solution here
is because it doesn't scratch an itch. I certainly would never bother
implementing the concept, because I think it's silly. The absence of a
free solution should be taken as a clue that it's not a problem with an
obvious technical answer.
Stephen
This makes an interesting assumption.

Look at it from the other side. Assume for a second that we're now
talking about, not the privileged I.T. literate people on this list,
but say... the poor folks of south Auckland where a computer may be
more of an abstract thing that can be sold at the pub for a couple of
bob rather than something to use which has parental responsibilities
within it's use:

Should the kids not gain the benefits that technology brings to them
and could potentially get them out of these areas (short generations,
unemployment, lack of context outside of their own community etc.)
because their parents aren't computer literate? Remember - we're
talking about real people in real situations here. It's not the
theoretical "everyone is middle class and has lived around computers
for a great deal of their lives".

Consider the fact that we're now entering an age of 1:1 programs. So
the kids own the computers and will therefore be taking these
computers home. Given that the school has enabled the use of this
technology for homes that would otherwise not have access to said
technology, it would be remiss for the school not to take a hand in
reducing the risk of cyber bullying and the like. Remember, NZ has one
of the highest suicide rates in the developed work. Hell, the project
I'm working on - The Manaiakalani Project - is even providing a
wireless network so that the student's netbooks can be used on the
internet within their homes.

Given the cost of licensing, schools are likely to consider Linux.
However, if Linux does not meet the need outlined previously, the
school effectively has no choice but to look elsewhere. Schools can
only provide a safe environment within it's grounds. For the rest,
they can help, guide, assist where possible but they must take the
community and type of community into consideration.

So yes. I think, within the right contexts, there is a place for this
type of software. This does not distract from the fact that any
programme of this sort HAS to support the parents in learning what
their kids are doing and the potential pitfalls.

Oh - and Stephen - lousy start to your post. Surely there was a much
more eloquent way of saying you disagree. That and taking away email
from students? That's just limited thinking. Very "children should be
seen and not heard"... Email is something that can be handled with.
(https://sites.google.com/site/eportfolioapps/overview/teacher-dashboard)

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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Stephen
2011-06-26 02:33:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:17:53 +1200
Post by Nevyn
Oh - and Stephen - lousy start to your post. Surely there was a much
more eloquent way of saying you disagree.
Perhaps that was ill-considered. But I think we've all seen worse, in
environments that attempt to enforce rules on acceptable language
through filtering. It seemed easier to demonstrate than to explain in a
roundabout way. I did not intend anyone to take it personally and I
apologise for causing offence.
Post by Nevyn
That and taking away email
from students? That's just limited thinking. Very "children should be
seen and not heard".
I guess that depends what you think school is for, and what children
are there to learn, which I guess is an argument best take off-list.

As to a school providing computers or access for children in
environments where parents can't afford computers in homes themselves,
it seems to me that there is an excellent opportunity to engage
parents, many of whom might find a computer and the skills to use it
liberating themselves.

That aside, I come back to the question of whether a solution that
depends on monitoring keystrokes can cope with the inventive linguistic
genius of children, and my instinct is that it almost certainly can
not. Tell kids they can't use a word and watch how quickly they invent
another one that they all understand means the same.

I honestly think that your best strategy for addressing this perceived
lack in the Linux world is to argue that it is not necessary for people
who don't have a product to sell on the back of parental fear.

Stephen

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Nevyn
2011-06-26 04:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen
not. Tell kids they can't use a word and watch how quickly they invent
another one that they all understand means the same.
Adults as well. The word "Yipes" was apparently an invented word as an
alternative to saying "Jesus". We can't take the lord's name in
vein.....

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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Nick Rout
2011-06-26 08:23:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
Post by Stephen
not. Tell kids they can't use a word and watch how quickly they invent
another one that they all understand means the same.
Adults as well. The word "Yipes" was apparently an invented word as an
alternative to saying "Jesus". We can't take the lord's name in
vein.....
that's "vain"
Post by Nevyn
Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
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Bruce Clement
2011-06-26 10:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Rout
...
Post by Nevyn
Adults as well. The word "Yipes" was apparently an invented word as an
alternative to saying "Jesus". We can't take the lord's name in
vein.....
that's "vain"
Depends if you're mainlining the deity :)

Seriously cyber bullying on PCs that can be reliably detected seems
unlikely.

I'd closely question the Windows software vendors carefully on issues like
reliability and false positives. False positives worry me as every time one
is produced the student's privacy is violated. Reliability worries me as I'm
sure it would soon get around the bullies that they can avoid detection by
...

Open source equivalents that look for keywords in downloaded pages shouldn't
be difficult to whip up. I'd start with one of the Firefox add-ins for
suppressing adverts then change what it searches for and convert the payload
to take a screen dump.
--
Bruce Clement

Home: http://www.clement.co.nz/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Bruce_Clement
Directory: http://www.searchme.co.nz/

"Before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good
appreciation of everything that already exists in this field." Mikhail
Kalashnikov
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Simon Bridge
2011-06-26 12:48:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen
I guess that depends what you think school is for, and what children
are there to learn, which I guess is an argument best take off-list.
Technically, this is a matter of law, not of opinion (except during
elections I guess). The education act is your friend here... it defines
what schools are for and what students are there to learn and not to
learn.

But yes, this list is really about open source etc ... there is an
overlap: one of the main reasons we advocate FOSS over others is the
freedom enhancement: we tend to characterise proprietary software as
chains. So we have a more than casual interest when FOSS is proposed to
take away freedoms. Sure we can do this, but is it a good idea to do
this?

Is it OK for a fair-trade operation, treating their workers fairly and
ethically, to make whips and chains which are to be used to enslave
others? Is this even a fair analogy?

Do we want to make FOSS DRM?

Do we want to make FOSS spyware?

Do we want to draw a line anywhere here?

These questions speak directly to what we are as a group.


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Simon Bridge
2011-06-26 12:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
Look at it from the other side. Assume for a second that we're now
talking about, not the privileged I.T. literate people on this list,
but say... the poor folks of south Auckland where a computer may be
more of an abstract thing that can be sold at the pub for a couple of
bob rather than something to use which has parental responsibilities
[etc]
The trouble here is that the same argument supports all of us having
this spyware on our computers checking what we do ... because some of us
are not computer savvy enough to help ourselves.

Even if we restrict this to on-load computers or computers for the poor,
we then risk creating a surveilled underclass.

As it happens there is supposed to be some monitoring of our network use
- but it is at the network level, watching traffic, not on our
individual machines.

Schools are institutions for education - the shortcoming you mention are
solveable with education. Serveillance of students *at home*,
seriously?! How is this even the schools business?


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Simon Bridge
2011-06-26 12:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
Remembering of course that schools have completely different concerns.
They're effectively acting as agents of the parents and have a duty of
care to do all that they can to keep the kids safe during school
hours.
a la
http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz/Problem-solving/Education-and-the-law/Bullying/Obligations-of-schools-to-pupils
Post by Nevyn
The responsibility is still with the parents and teachers but that
doesn't mean you shouldn't have teachers ... patrolling the school
grounds during recess or lunch and keeping and eye out for kids being
isolated from their peers or outright bullying.
But we don't require GPS units to be worn as part of school uniform.
This would help a great deal to keep students safe. That would be
unreasonable though.
Post by Nevyn
The software meets a real and practical need regardless of whether you
think it's dubious or not.
Regardless, it is not reasonable and has an overlong reach. We also have
to be careful about opening the door to blanket surveillance of
school-children.

This is actually an emerging field of law.
Post by Nevyn
I think Spreadsheets are dubious but that
doesn't mean I don't think there should be an opensource solution for
them. Personally I'd be much happier being able to see the hueristics
used rather than a closed piece of software which may certainly be
doing something dubious.
Well you'd certainly want to know if your spreadsheet software was
spying on you ... apart from that, this is a false analogy. Your dislike
of spreadsheets depends on the sort of office you want to run, mandating
spyware on kids computers goes to what sort of society they grow up to
have.
Post by Nevyn
Assuming that schools are going to want this
a) An open dialogue about it looking at it from a school's perspective.
b) An opensource solution or, failing that, looking at real life
practical solutions not requiring such software.
(a) the open dialog needs to include the "schools perspetive", but
should not be restricted to that.

(b) you are saying that if spyware is going to be used lets make it open
source spyware? Sure - we are talking about schools restricting students
choice in computers to only those which are capable of spying on
them ... if the only option is proprietary then this will likely mean
that students are restricted to proprietary OSs.

Note: there exist practical real-life approaches to mitigate bullying,
not requiring software, which schools are aware of. This is a big field
fraught with politics - the proposed option (tracking a students
computer use and taking a screenshot, sent to a central location, when
suspect behaviour is detected) is, at best, a band-aid. Hell, the
problem to be solved has not even been described, only labelled - if we
don't know what it is expected to do then how do we know if it's
working?

Anyway - this is probably all premature. Others will be debating the
legality and the ethics. For us we have two main concerns:

Is it ethical to make chains if the are foss chains?
Can we characterise this is a proprietary problem - say, if FOSS
computers were used in schools, we'd be more able to trace misuse of the
school network to a particular host or otherwise identify perpetrators
without installing spyware on everyone's computers?


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Simon Bridge
2011-06-26 10:23:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
Post by Simon Bridge
Post by Nevyn
I'm wondering if anyone has looked into software for preventing cyber
bullying. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases. Does anything like this exist within the
open source realm?
This would involve getting malware onto someone's computer ... also
watching people through their webcams is creepy. To top it all off, this
is ultimately ineffective - how long before people bully from computers
without cameras or just cover the camera with a bit of paper?
This is not something that can be solved with software. You need to deal
with the social situation which leads to the behaviour you want to stop.
Dude! When was a webcam ever mentioned?
OK misread.
Post by Nevyn
We're talking about a screen
shot. Schools have a mandate
"mandate"? State schools are required by law to provide a safe learning
environment at school (NZEAp12 iirc).... but they also have to obey
other laws - like the privacy act. Surveillance needs to be appropriate
to the cause with reason to believe it will be effective.
Post by Nevyn
to protect their kids from this sort of
stuff and must be able to demonstrate that they are taking steps to
stop it. No snooping involved. Users would be told that this is
exactly what's going on.
Yes I know - even if the steps are inappropriate to the problem ...
security theatre. There are many possibilities - is monitoring all of
every kids computer use to scale with the problem? It is too easy to
justify pretty much anything in the name of protecting the kids.
Post by Nevyn
And I agree with you. It's a social situation. In meat space the
problem exists, except you're a lot more likely to see the incident...
Well it still involves putting malware on a students computer, which
could also represent a security problem by itself. Anyway - how do you
get it on every device a student may need? Do you really need a
screenshot to determine where an offending message came from?

Monitoring the use of school computers and/or the school network is
slightly different since schools want to know their computers/network is
not being used inappropriately - eg to surf for porn. One would track
network use as part of the normal good management thereof. The
net-admins here will be able to tell you if a network can be set up so
offending activity can be traced to a particular login/host.
Circumstances can lead you from there to the culprit.

But if the idea is to monitor the students computer use, however
inappropriate, outside school?



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Brett Davidson
2011-06-26 21:26:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
Post by Simon Bridge
Post by Nevyn
I'm wondering if anyone has looked into software for preventing cyber
bullying. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases. Does anything like this exist within the
open source realm?
This would involve getting malware onto someone's computer ... also
watching people through their webcams is creepy. To top it all off, this
is ultimately ineffective - how long before people bully from computers
without cameras or just cover the camera with a bit of paper?
This is not something that can be solved with software. You need to deal
with the social situation which leads to the behaviour you want to stop.
Dude! When was a webcam ever mentioned? We're talking about a screen
shot. Schools have a mandate to protect their kids from this sort of
stuff and must be able to demonstrate that they are taking steps to
stop it. No snooping involved. Users would be told that this is
exactly what's going on.
And I agree with you. It's a social situation. In meat space the
problem exists, except you're a lot more likely to see the incident...
This is common practise in the UK apparently.
I intitally employed Dansguardian at home when my son first went onto
the Internet (it's almost mandatory now, as without it, he could not
complete his homework quickly). It was intended (and functioned
superbly) as a way to prevent problems due to "click on the shiny link"
syndrome. ;-)

Then again, I run a server at home where implementing Dansguardian via
Squid is quite within my capabilities. (That would not apply for the
average parent).
Dansguardian COULD be configured as an abuse detector but that was not
my reason for implementing it and even with this product (by far the
best I saw when looking around at this some years ago) there would be
lots of false positives.

It's now no longer used as Allister has the ability to discriminate what
links are likely to be problem ones and knows what to do about them if
he does stumble on one.
He does not get cyber-bullyed as he's not on any social networks except
the school one (they have a Youtube equivalent where the kids can
contribute/comment).

Physical bullying is more of a problem at his school and that
disappeared once I told him to hit back once, as hard as he could AFTER
they threw the first punch. :-)

Brat.


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Martin D Kealey
2011-06-29 21:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Bridge
Post by Nevyn
I'm wondering if anyone has looked into software for preventing cyber
bullying. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases. Does anything like this exist within the
open source realm?
This would involve getting malware onto someone's computer ... also
watching people through their webcams is creepy. To top it all off, this
is ultimately ineffective - how long before people bully from computers
without cameras or just cover the camera with a bit of paper?
This is not something that can be solved with software. You need to deal
with the social situation which leads to the behaviour you want to stop.
This sounds backwards to me.

Leaving aside the irrelevance of "webcam"...

Surely the point is to capture screenshots on the *victim's* computer?

And how, morally, would that differ from keeping, say, an IRC log on ones
own computer?

All that the text-matching does is filter to decide when not to bother
recording, in order to save space (and reduce the search-space later).

As long as the victim is fully in control of what happens to the information
that's collected, I don't see a problem. (Part of that control would of
course include the ability to review & delete images that are no longer
needed.)

-Martin

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Bruce Clement
2011-06-29 21:44:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin D Kealey
As long as the victim is fully in control of what happens to the information
that's collected, I don't see a problem. (Part of that control would of
course include the ability to review & delete images that are no longer
needed.)
Part of the problem with real world bullying is that the victim is terrified
or shamed into not reporting the bullying to relevant authorities.

I can't imagine that cyber bullying would differ much in this respect.
--
Bruce Clement

Home: http://www.clement.co.nz/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Bruce_Clement
Directory: http://www.searchme.co.nz/

"Before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good
appreciation of everything that already exists in this field." Mikhail
Kalashnikov
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yuri
2011-06-29 23:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin D Kealey
Surely the point is to capture screenshots on the *victim's* computer?
Okay, I've just come up with a very good (IMHO) solution.
Teach all kids how to take screenshots. Should be a 15 minute lesson
including demonstration.

Maybe 20min lesson if demo'ed for Mac, Windows, Gnome, KDE & Unity.

Then, if a kid gets something on their screen that they want to
report, they'll know how to gather the evidence (I suspect one reason
bullying is under reported is that the victim knows it's their word
against the bully's).

Rather than relying on the heuristics of an automated app, it's
totally up to each kid to decide their own threshold of what they find
offensive.

Yuri de Groot
Parent of two small girls.

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Shiv Manas
2011-06-30 00:59:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by yuri
Post by Martin D Kealey
Surely the point is to capture screenshots on the *victim's* computer?
Okay, I've just come up with a very good (IMHO) solution.
Teach all kids how to take screenshots. Should be a 15 minute lesson
including demonstration.
Maybe 20min lesson if demo'ed for Mac, Windows, Gnome, KDE & Unity.
Then, if a kid gets something on their screen that they want to
report, they'll know how to gather the evidence (I suspect one reason
bullying is under reported is that the victim knows it's their word
against the bully's).
Rather than relying on the heuristics of an automated app, it's
totally up to each kid to decide their own threshold of what they find
offensive.
Yuri de Groot
Parent of two small girls.
There are a lot of issues here:

- The onus is upto the victim here to provide evidence. This can often be
insufficient. For instance, if the victim is being bullied by an anonymous
bully over a random forum or chatroom, how would taking a screenshot help
identify the actual person? (Unless the bully uses a well-known nick... even
then, it'll be hard to prove that it was the bully in question and not
someone else using their nick)

- Screenshots can be very easily modified or crafted.

- Sometimes the victims don't even know they're being bullied. For
instance, consider the Megan Meier suicide case. Megan thought Josh was a
real person. Megan never even knew she was a victim of cyber bullying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier

---

- Considering the above example; even if the automatic screenshotting
software were to be installed in the bully's computer, how often would you
think the screenshot capture would be triggered? The bully needn't use
offensive words. Infact, a lot of kids these days use the F word while
chatting with friends - so much so, that the word has lost it's traditional
offensiveness. How would the software filter out such false positives? On
the other hand, simple phrases like "you are a bad person" - which might
have a fatal effect on a victim, might not even be picked up by the
program.

All points considered, in my opinion, such a software is hardly a solution
or even a preventive measure for cyberbullying. This is something that has
to be tackled by proper education and counselling of children and parents.


- Shiv
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Bryan Baldwin
2011-06-30 01:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shiv Manas
All points considered, in my opinion, such a software is hardly a solution
or even a preventive measure for cyberbullying. This is something that has
to be tackled by proper education and counselling of children and parents.
I agree. Think about it this way. 20 year ago, where was the cyber-bullying? When I was a pre-teen I had to worry about real bullies physically threatening me in person. I'm not saying that cyber bulling isn't bad, but if the interface the child is using is opt-in such as MySpace and AssBook--just shut it off, duh. Even better => never sign up to that rubbish. There is something to "sticks and stones don't break my bones".

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Simon Bridge
2011-06-30 14:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bryan Baldwin
I agree. Think about it this way. 20 year ago, where was the cyber-bullying? When I was a pre-teen I had to worry about real bullies physically threatening me in person. I'm not saying that cyber bulling isn't bad, but if the interface the child is using is opt-in such as MySpace and AssBook--just shut it off, duh. Even better => never sign up to that rubbish. There is something to "sticks and stones don't break my bones".
Technology-based bullying tends to get different people. I've seen
people immune to physical bullying totally helpless against phone
bullying ... they'd be in tears on the line begging the bully to "stop
it" and it never occurred to them just to hang up. They actually had to
be taught to do that.

Very often computers are just given to people with the minimum "how to
point and click" instructions ... these people are not in control of
their computers and they need to be.


The Meier case is very special because the "bullying" was covert, as far
as the victim knew, this was a real relationship that had gone very
sour. This is what she was responding to. There are also incedents of
genuine, non-hoax, relationships turning bad and abusive leading to
suicide. Further, the main perp was not a school student, she was an
adult seeking payback for suspected rumour-mongering. She felt helpless
before the rumours, figured she knew who did it, and set out to give her
a taste of her own medicine. (reinforces: by the time bullying comes to
attention, the bullies are often also victims ... of course, they could
also be lying.)

Teens have been mean this way before, such as pretending to like someone
just to break up later and cause pain. The victim would have been
bullied in the school grounds as well as targeted online. There were no
anti-bullying programs at all...

Normal anti-bullying measures would reduce the incedence of this sort of
thing as all parties would feel thay had other options and, at least:
Meier would have felt able to tell her parents she's broken up with her
online boyfriend - exposing the hoax.

Anyone with teens? Can you tell when they've had a bad day at school?
"What happened at school today?"
"nothin"
"Well, I'm here if you want to talk OK?"
"Kay".

The nethui has (had?) a bit on cyber-bullying... how did that go?


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Nevyn
2011-07-02 10:44:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Bridge
The nethui has (had?) a bit on cyber-bullying... how did that go?
It was amazingly good. The sessions were fairly well focused and
engagement pretty high. There were some seriously good take home
messages for me.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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Simon Bridge
2011-07-02 16:53:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
Post by Simon Bridge
The nethui has (had?) a bit on cyber-bullying... how did that go?
It was amazingly good. The sessions were fairly well focused and
engagement pretty high. There were some seriously good take home
messages for me.
Yeah, I heard there was not such an emphasis in technology to address
this?

By comparison there is stuff like this:
http://thenextweb.com/industry/2011/06/28/us-govt-plant-usb-sticks-in-security-study-60-of-subjects-take-the-bait/
... here we see people trying to find a social solution to a tech
problem. We should all be suspicious of any USB sticks ... not from
particular providers of course.


People get USB sticks all the time. The problem isn't that people are
idiots, that they should know that a USB stick found on the street is
automatically bad and a USB stick given away at a trade show is
automatically good. The problem is that their OS trusts random USB
sticks. The problem is that their OS will automatically run a program
that can install malware from a USB stick.
-- Bruce Schneier.

Though my win7 does not do this without first pointing out that it may
be harmful to my computer. I understand lots of people switch this off.


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Nevyn
2011-07-02 23:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Bridge
Post by Nevyn
Post by Simon Bridge
The nethui has (had?) a bit on cyber-bullying... how did that go?
It was amazingly good. The sessions were fairly well focused and
engagement pretty high. There were some seriously good take home
messages for me.
Yeah, I heard there was not such an emphasis in technology to address
this?
Yep. Like I said... some real good take home messages. So the
conversation wasn't around the tech, but how to engage people. How do
we engage the kids to become part of the solution? How can the parents
get involved? What is a school's responsibility in all of this? What
are we trying to teach? etc.

Met some people who work exclusively in this field as well so the
exchanging of business cards (not to self, get some business cards
made up before going to a conference) afterwards was invaluable.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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yuri
2011-06-30 01:36:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shiv Manas
All points considered, in my opinion, such a software is hardly a solution
or even a preventive measure for cyberbullying. This is something that has
to be tackled by proper education and counselling of children and parents.
Agreed. I was only giving a solution to the technical side, doing away
with the need to install any software. In the few cases where a
screenshot might help, no special software is required. That was my
point.

As for the non-technical side, yes I agree with your views.
I think the best thing I can do for my own daughters is to raise them
as confident young women so they won't be easy targets.

The best thing I can do for other children is teach mine not to bully.

Perhaps a good, values-based martial art might help in both cases.

Yuri

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Simon Bridge
2011-06-30 14:16:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin D Kealey
Post by Simon Bridge
Post by Nevyn
I'm wondering if anyone has looked into software for preventing cyber
bullying. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases. Does anything like this exist within the
open source realm?
This would involve getting malware onto someone's computer ... also
watching people through their webcams is creepy. To top it all off, this
is ultimately ineffective - how long before people bully from computers
without cameras or just cover the camera with a bit of paper?
This is not something that can be solved with software. You need to deal
with the social situation which leads to the behaviour you want to stop.
This sounds backwards to me.
Leaving aside the irrelevance of "webcam"...
Surely the point is to capture screenshots on the *victim's* computer?
And how, morally, would that differ from keeping, say, an IRC log on ones
own computer?
Nothing - nothing wrong with the victim seeing a bullying example and
hitting "screenshot" either. However, this is not what is being
proposed.
Example from the UK:
http://www.securus-software.com/overview/index.html
... the software is installed on every students computer and everybody
is monitored and reported on. It is not in the students control.
Also see this study:
http://www.cybercrimejournal.com/KraftwangJulyIJCC2009.pdf
... (USA) which identifies key factors in cyberbullying and highlights
parental education as key to reducing it. (The US study emphasises 1st
amendment - freedom of speech - while here we'd have to look more to the
privacy act implications.)
Post by Martin D Kealey
All that the text-matching does is filter to decide when not to bother
recording, in order to save space (and reduce the search-space later).
Its to decide what to record, yes.
Post by Martin D Kealey
As long as the victim is fully in control of what happens to the information
that's collected, I don't see a problem. (Part of that control would of
course include the ability to review & delete images that are no longer
needed.)
Actually this is part of the solution - the "victims" feel powerless,
yet they have a lot of control over what they get. Someone keeps sending
threatening emails - report them and block the sender: no more
threatening emails. There are other examples.

Strangely - bullies also tend to feel victimized or isolated and react
to that feeling by bullying. This speaks to the overall school culture
rather than to individual offenses. The pdf linked above (and many other
studies you care to look up) reinforces this.

And how is this relevent to FOSS?

If we want to provide a software option to students who feel bullied, we
can take a leaf out of the FOSS way of "doing things by empowering the
user".

The software must be free/libre so we are sure that the user has the
control - at least in principle.

The software has to be optional - it can be provided as a download or a
repository/website. However, we are better to teach students to use the
software they have to more effectively manage their digital lives. They
should not be passive consumers of social media.

It has to be accompanied by other, established and research-based,
anti-bullying measures and parental involvement ...


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David S
2011-06-25 20:41:52 UTC
Permalink
. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
Post by Nevyn
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases.
What/where was the meeting out of interest? Name of product mentioned and
any other useful information would be appreciated.


David.
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Nevyn
2011-06-25 20:55:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
Post by Nevyn
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases.
What/where was the meeting out of interest? Name of product mentioned and
any other useful information would be appreciated.
David.
Ha! Not falling for that trick...

I was circumspect on purpose. The name of the software wasn't
volunteered as the people offering it are essentially a reseller of
other products but under their own name...

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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David S
2011-06-25 21:05:02 UTC
Permalink
Ha! Not falling for that trick...
It was a genuine question, sorry if I've caused offence.


-David.
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Steve Holdoway
2011-06-26 05:21:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nevyn
I'm wondering if anyone has looked into software for preventing cyber
bullying. A meeting I was at last week it was mentioned that there's a
piece of software that will automatically take a screenshot when it
recognises certain phrases. Does anything like this exist within the
open source realm?
Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
AIUI most occurs on social media sites. As telecom offer free access
from your mobile phone, I'm not too sure what relevance this has on a
LUG platform (:

On another note, I did some work on a server on the school network for
the first time last week. Apart from connectivity like a yoyo, and sub
10KB/sec bandwidth, I was able to scp anything at all into it, which
suggests that there are some far more fundamental things to be addressed
on your average school network...

Steve
--
Steve Holdoway BSc(Hons) MNZCS <***@greengecko.co.nz>
http://www.greengecko.co.nz
MSN: ***@greengecko.co.nz
Skype: sholdowa
Simon Bridge
2011-06-26 12:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Holdoway
On another note, I did some work on a server on the school network for
the first time last week. Apart from connectivity like a yoyo, and sub
10KB/sec bandwidth, I was able to scp anything at all into it, which
suggests that there are some far more fundamental things to be addressed
on your average school network...
This is the truth - unless there is a teacher who has a passion for
systems administration, it will be hopeless. There will be a tendency
towards one-click "solutions" ... a properly set-up network will
actually mitigate a lot of the misuse it gets.

A group prepared to set up school networks at low cost should do well
cold-calling, why should it just be the MS guys who do that? It may be
interesting to compare with all those open servers that went out to low
decile schools ... anyway, it could be a way to get more foss into
schools as well as better school networks.


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Nevyn
2011-06-26 18:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Bridge
Post by Steve Holdoway
On another note, I did some work on a server on the school network for
the first time last week. Apart from connectivity like a yoyo, and sub
10KB/sec bandwidth, I was able to scp anything at all into it, which
suggests that there are some far more fundamental things to be addressed
on your average school network...
This is the truth - unless there is a teacher who has a passion for
systems administration, it will be hopeless. There will be a tendency
towards one-click "solutions" ... a properly set-up network will
actually mitigate a lot of the misuse it gets.
A group prepared to set up school networks at low cost should do well
cold-calling, why should it just be the MS guys who do that? It may be
interesting to compare with all those open servers that went out to low
decile schools ... anyway, it could be a way to get more foss into
schools as well as better school networks.
It's interesting. Every school I've been to has been different in
their approach.

One of the ones I really dislike, the principal is the only one with
passwords - so for example, a teacher can't hook up to the wireless
network and has to wait until he gets around to putting it in for him.
Same with the proxy passwords (for each browser) etc. The computers
look like what you would find in a secretaries office so computing is
typing up a document in MS Word.

Others are just plain brilliant - choosing instead to learn the bits
and pieces themselves The school I'm based out of has 3 teachers, the
principal, and an ex-student as a technician after school for 2nd/3rd
tier support.

In terms of cold calling... generally speaking they'll have an
established IT support contract and if they really don't have a
passion for this stuff, they'll be reluctant to leave them. In one
case, while complaining about how hopeless they were, they were
signing up a support contract for another year. I think you'd do
better to offer up a freebie. Do a little work for them, establish a
relationship. Give them the opportunity to trust you rather than
trying to be a salesman.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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