Android turn by turn navigation for NZ

[Peter Harrison]

Just wondering if anyone knows of a turn by turn navigation
application for New Zealand for the Android?

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[Peter Lambrechtsen]

Might be something on: http://gwprojects.org/forum/index.php

Post by Peter Harrison
Just wondering if anyone knows of a turn by turn navigation
application for New Zealand for the Android?
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[Robin Paulson]

something on the osm wiki? and they will of course have data for all
the world...

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Android

nz osm data is very good in some areas

Post by Peter Harrison
Just wondering if anyone knows of a turn by turn navigation
application for New Zealand for the Android?

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[Peter Harrison]

Post by Robin Paulson
something on the osm wiki? and they will of course have data for all
the world...
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Android
nz osm data is very good in some areas

This is great, thank you very much. Android is quickly becoming my
favorite linux distribution... well except for Ubuntu ;)

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[Nick Rout]

Post by Peter Harrison

Post by Robin Paulson
something on the osm wiki? and they will of course have data for all
the world...
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Android
nz osm data is very good in some areas

This is great, thank you very much. Android is quickly becoming my
favorite linux distribution... well except for Ubuntu ;)

I've only had my htc desire for a week and it's a lot of fun.

This overly long thread (which I haven't waded through to the end of
yet) http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=97&topicid=60136&page_no=11
mentions map creation software called mobile atlas creator
http://mobac.dnsalias.org/ which enables you to create offline maps
(so you don't need network access on the road).

It also mentions "maps brut" which seems to refer to some version of
google maps (google itself gives
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=630887 as first hit).

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[Hadley Rich]

Post by Nick Rout
It also mentions "maps brut" which seems to refer to some version of
google maps (google itself gives
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=630887 as first hit).

Maps brut is a hacked version of Google Maps which enables the turn by
turn functionality for the rest of the world that the US gets.

hads

[Jaco van der Merwe]

Post by Peter Harrison
Just wondering if anyone knows of a turn by turn navigation
application for New Zealand for the Android?

I'm running the FroydVillain 1.5.0 custom ROM on my Hero (best & last for my
model, AFAIK).

Not sure about stock ROM's, but the custom ROM's are "hacked" with the
navigation & street view extra's (including turn-by-turn voice), & the new ROM
even has a "car-mode" to make using the device while driving an experience
similar to an in-car GPS system.

Only down-side of Maps on android is the fact that tiles are not cached (but I'm
sure there's a "hack' for that too)

- J





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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
Only down-side of Maps on android is the fact that tiles are not cached (but I'm
sure there's a "hack' for that too)

is this an application for google maps/street view? if so, i'd suggest
a bigger downside is the non-free data it uses

of course, open street map is all free data, released under cc-by-sa

it's in many cases better quality, more comprehensive, more accurate,
and the user can do what he or she wishes with it

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[Nick Rout]

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
Only down-side of Maps on android is the fact that tiles are not cached (but I'm
sure there's a "hack' for that too)

is this an application for google maps/street view? if so, i'd suggest
a bigger downside is the non-free data it uses
of course, open street map is all free data, released under cc-by-sa
it's in many cases better quality, more comprehensive, more accurate,
and the user can do what he or she wishes with it

Info on the Rmaps app that I mentioned earlier here:

http://robertdeveloper.blogspot.com/2009/08/rmaps.html

Mobile Atlas Creator (formerly TrekBuddy Atlas Creator) can use a
large number of map sources, including openstreetmap.

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[Jaco van der Merwe]

Post by Robin Paulson
is this an application for google maps/street view? if so, i'd suggest
a bigger downside is the non-free data it uses

really? c'mon! I'm already using a GOOGLE-phone (extensively), so obviously
that's a secondary concern next to usable functionality.
I have various other apps that use Libre data sources, but they tend to suck
(suggestions welcome).


So if there was a decent app that uses Libre data able to provide me with the
same functionality & stability & usability as the native app, I'll be game,
otherwise the use of Libre data on an inferior platform is simply a biased
cop-out IMHO.

I'd rather use the right app for the right job at the right time, and I already
have that.
The native platform offers a good value-proposition, but I'm always on the
lookout for something better.

- J





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[Nevyn]

Post by Jaco van der Merwe

Post by Robin Paulson
is this an application for google maps/street view? if so, i'd suggest
a bigger downside is the non-free data it uses

really? c'mon! I'm already using a GOOGLE-phone (extensively), so obviously
that's a secondary concern next to usable functionality.
I have various other apps that use Libre data sources, but they tend to suck
(suggestions welcome).

Good point - though consider you audience. His is a pretty valid point
as well considering this list is about openness. Nothing quite as open
as open data.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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[Jaco van der Merwe]

Post by Nevyn
Good point - though consider you audience. His is a pretty valid point
as well considering this list is about openness. Nothing quite as open
as open data.

Fair enough, but I think the original question was related to an application, &
not specifying the data source.
The native google maps & nav is free as in "gratis", if not "libre" (again with
the distinction...)

There are android apps, such as Maverick
(http://www.appbrain.com/app/maverick-lite/com.codesector.maverick.lite), that
makes use of multple data sources, including the the "gratis" google maps, as
well as the "libre" OSM.

Unfortunately, as mentioned before, none (at least none that I've tried) can
hold a candle to the native app.

{straying a bit O/T here}
Another important distinction to point out when referring to Android apps,
especially the native ones, is that they are enablers to the "cloud", and do not
stand alone as something like the aforementioned Maverick does. The basically
turns your MID into a "window to the cloud", enabling to, pretty seamlessly,
access your cloud-based services.

Maps is a good example of this.
On my desktop (ie. browser), I've marked a number of daycare centres near home,
and shared those (in a fairly private & secure manner) with my wife (and/or
others of my choosing). I now have that information at my disposal on my mobile,
and can quickly & easily get details & directions to those sites.

I know that OSM can do much of this, but what I've referring to is the
integration with other systems & end-user experience (such as street-view using
the built-in compass & gyro).

But it's getting there....

- J





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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
Maps is a good example of this.
On my desktop (ie. browser), I've marked a number of daycare centres near home,
and shared those (in a fairly private & secure manner) with my wife (and/or

secure from who? you seem to be forgetting that a very large,
multi-billion dollar data-mining and marketing company has the
information. i'd be more concerned about them seeing it than joe
public

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
others of my choosing). I now have that information at my disposal on my mobile,

and plenty of people not of your choosing. who does google sell your
aggregated data to? do you have a choice there? well, no

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
I know that OSM can do much of this, but what I've referring to is the
integration with other systems & end-user experience (such as street-view using
the built-in compass & gyro).
But it's getting there....

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[Vik Olliver]

Post by Robin Paulson
secure from who? you seem to be forgetting that a very large,
multi-billion dollar data-mining and marketing company has the
information. i'd be more concerned about them seeing it than joe
public

May I bring your attention to the relevant XKCD cartoon on secure systems:

http://xkcd.com/538/

Vik :v)

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[Nevyn]

Post by Vik Olliver
http://xkcd.com/538/
Vik :v)

A wrench is not a replacement to a multi-million dollar cluster!

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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[Martin D Kealey]

Post by Nevyn
A wrench is not a replacement to a multi-million dollar cluster!
From a "weaponizing" perspective, the former has a more extensive feature

set:
* cost-effective
* effective in close-quarters combat
* effective at mid-range combat (requires throwing practice)
* portable
* can be attached with magnetic restraints
* compatible with many standard "tool belt" plug-ins
* dial-a-thud range of lethality
* dual-use (can turn nuts as well)
* firewalled against all known and unknown intrusion methods
* packets are difficult to trace once you wipe the blood off

-Martin

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[Nevyn]

Post by Nevyn
From a "weaponizing" perspective, the former has a more extensive feature

 * cost-effective
 * effective in close-quarters combat
 * effective at mid-range combat (requires throwing practice)
 * portable
 * can be attached with magnetic restraints
 * compatible with many standard "tool belt" plug-ins
 * dial-a-thud range of lethality
 * dual-use (can turn nuts as well)
 * firewalled against all known and unknown intrusion methods
 * packets are difficult to trace once you wipe the blood off
-Martin

* Run separate vm's for every service under the sun.
* Attempt to break a shadow file through brute force (without a spanner)
* Bragging rights.
* Coming up with names for each node of the cluster (And all the nodes
together form Voltron!)
* Take up 3d modelling on a huge scale just because you can.
* Have it calculate the probability of an improbable event
* Hide behind it rather than get into close quarter combat
* Doesn't require you to do anything terribly physical such as throwing.
* Has loads of blinking lights (and how doesn't like blinking lights?)
* The firewall is customizable.

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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Vik Olliver

Post by Robin Paulson
secure from who? you seem to be forgetting that a very large,
multi-billion dollar data-mining and marketing company has the
information. i'd be more concerned about them seeing it than joe
public

http://xkcd.com/538/

that's somewhat missing the point. it's not that the data contains
anything that by itself is particularly interesting. it isn't, most
people's lives are utterly banal and mundane

but at a large-scale, the data takes on whole new uses and purposes -
namely to sell shit to people. as i said, google is a marketing firm,
and they're very good at it.

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[Nick Rout]

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Vik Olliver

Post by Robin Paulson
secure from who? you seem to be forgetting that a very large,
multi-billion dollar data-mining and marketing company has the
information. i'd be more concerned about them seeing it than joe
public

http://xkcd.com/538/

that's somewhat missing the point. it's not that the data contains
anything that by itself is particularly interesting. it isn't, most
people's lives are utterly banal and mundane
but at a large-scale, the data takes on whole new uses and purposes -
namely to sell shit to people. as i said, google is a marketing firm,
and they're very good at it.

Perhaps some people would like more targeted advertising. I for one
have no use for Rugby shirts or Baby Toys. I know what pet food to
buy. I want to hear about new geeky toys.

There now google will know that about me, and hopefully target the ads
they push to me (and which I avoid anyway with adblock plus LOL)

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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Nick Rout
Perhaps some people would like more targeted advertising. I for one
have no use for Rugby shirts or Baby Toys. I know what pet food to
buy. I want to hear about new geeky toys.

and for those of us that don't live through our possessions? for those
of us who don't validate ourselves by buying more and more crap?

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[Nick Rout]

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Nick Rout
Perhaps some people would like more targeted advertising. I for one
have no use for Rugby shirts or Baby Toys. I know what pet food to
buy. I want to hear about new geeky toys.

and for those of us that don't live through our possessions? for those
of us who don't validate ourselves by buying more and more crap?

The aforesaid adblock :)

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[Jaco van der Merwe]

Post by Nick Rout
The aforesaid adblock :)

Yip! & NoScript is your friend.
I use adblock so simply block content = *ads* & *banner*, & NS to block
googlesyndication & googleapi's & avoid persistent cookies, which, by & large,
is the mechanism used to "track".

Honestly, I think you're only fooling yourself if you think you're fooling
anybody.

Simple rule-of-thumb for exposing your data: if you don't want it public, then
don't post it on the net to begin with. Once it's out, it *will* get aggregated
& indexed. If not by Google, then somebody else. ("privacy" on a public
network....... yea, right!)
Do you honestly believe the state does not already have invisible lawfull
interception capabilities built into your network service-provider's
infrastructure (& dictated by law to boot!)?

The only way you could get close to comprehensive privacy is point-to-point
crypto (SSL doesn't count, btw), which narrows your audience & introduces
aforementioned spanner (my all-time favourite XKCD, btw!)

Again, it comes down to a value-proposition. If your privacy is compromised (&
assume it is & try to address those shortcomings), then the question is: what
are you getting in exchange for paying that cost, and what can you do to
increase the value-equation in your favour?

- J





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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
Do you honestly believe the state does not already have invisible lawfull
interception capabilities built into your network service-provider's
infrastructure (& dictated by law to boot!)?

invisible?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8075563/Every-email-and-website-to-be-stored.html

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[Cliff Pratt]

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
Do you honestly believe the state does not already have invisible
lawful interception capabilities built into your network
service-provider's infrastructure (& dictated by law to boot!)?

Yes.

Cheers,

Cliff

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[Jethro Carr]

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
Do you honestly believe the state does not already have invisible
lawful interception capabilities built into your network
service-provider's infrastructure (& dictated by law to boot!)?

NZ ISPs are legally required to provide the capability to intercept
customer connections, but that's on a case-by-case basis and I presume,
would require a court order/warrant.

There's nothing like a system recording all data sent through for all
customers if that's what your worried about.**


** with the exception of txt messages, apparently the telcos have an
archive which contains recently sent messages.


regards,
jethro

[Ron Wilson]

Not sure that is correct I read an article recently that said internal affairs dept have devices installed at SIPs that provide a direct feed of all inwards traffic and they can sit and browse as they want. No warrant required
The article showed a pix of the device at Telecom

Post by Jethro Carr

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
Do you honestly believe the state does not already have invisible
lawful interception capabilities built into your network
service-provider's infrastructure (& dictated by law to boot!)?

NZ ISPs are legally required to provide the capability to intercept
customer connections, but that's on a case-by-case basis and I presume,
would require a court order/warrant.
There's nothing like a system recording all data sent through for all
customers if that's what your worried about.**
** with the exception of txt messages, apparently the telcos have an
archive which contains recently sent messages.
regards,
jethro
--
Jethro Carr
www.jethrocarr.com
www.amberdms.com
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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Ron Wilson
Not sure that is correct I read an article recently that said internal affairs dept have
devices installed at SIPs that provide a direct feed of all inwards traffic and they can sit
and browse as they want. No warrant required

if i understand correctly, without a warrant they can't use any data
found in a court-of-law as evidence, but it can still be used to
indicate areas of investigation for the police/other gov. groups. oh,
i'm not a lawyer by the way

Post by Ron Wilson
The article showed a pix of the device at  Telecom

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[cr]

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Ron Wilson
Not sure that is correct I read an article recently that said internal
affairs dept have devices installed at SIPs that provide a direct feed of
all inwards traffic and they can sit and browse as they want. No warrant
required

if i understand correctly, without a warrant they can't use any data
found in a court-of-law as evidence, but it can still be used to
indicate areas of investigation for the police/other gov. groups. oh,
i'm not a lawyer by the way

... so when they get a nice juicy bit of dirt on you they just get a suitably
back-dated warrant... ?

Think they wouldn't?

If there was something I really, really didn't want Mr Plod to know about
there's no way I'd trust it to an email.

cr

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Ron Wilson
The article showed a pix of the device at  Telecom

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[Bruce Clement]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 7:34 PM, cr <***@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
...

Post by cr
... so when they get a nice juicy bit of dirt on you they just get a suitably
back-dated warrant...   ?
Think they wouldn't?

They don't even need it back-dated: "Found this file in the browser
cache" or "Found this deleted file" is pretty standard, even without
having the 21 Century equivalent of sergeant Lenrick Johnston on your
case. The best way to avoid this is not to go to these sites in the
first place. The second best way is to avoid going to these sites in
the first place, etc.

Other than exposing corruption by judges, there isn't much that's
illegal to have in this country that isn't also nauseating.
--
Bruce Clement

Home:    http://www.clement.co.nz/
Twitter:    http://twitter.com/Bruce_Clement
Google Buzz: http://www.google.com/profiles/aotearoanz

"Before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good
appreciation of everything that already exists in this field." Mikhail
Kalashnikov

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[cr]

Post by Bruce Clement
...

Post by cr
... so when they get a nice juicy bit of dirt on you they just get a
suitably back-dated warrant...   ?
Think they wouldn't?

They don't even need it back-dated: "Found this file in the browser
cache" or "Found this deleted file" is pretty standard, even without
having the 21 Century equivalent of sergeant Lenrick Johnston on your
case. The best way to avoid this is not to go to these sites in the
first place. The second best way is to avoid going to these sites in
the first place, etc.
Other than exposing corruption by judges, there isn't much that's
illegal to have in this country that isn't also nauseating.

This is getting a bit OT so I won't prolong it, other than to note I was
referring to emails - if I was to arrange tonight to meet Mr Big and hand
over the ten tons of heroin/C4/AK47's stored in my bath, what's the betting a
warrant would be found to have been issued last week to intercept my
emails? :)

cr

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[Bruce Kingsbury]

Post by cr
This is getting a bit OT so I won't prolong it, other than to note I was
referring to emails -  if I was to arrange tonight to meet Mr Big and hand
over the ten tons of heroin/C4/AK47's stored in my bath, what's the betting a
warrant would be found to have been issued last week to intercept my
emails?    :)

"For Heaven's SAKE, don't dig up the garden! That's where I buried the GUNS!"

One of my favourite state surveillance jokes...

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[Robin Paulson]

Post by cr
This is getting a bit OT so I won't prolong it, other than to note I was
referring to emails -  if I was to arrange tonight to meet Mr Big and hand
over the ten tons of heroin/C4/AK47's stored in my bath, what's the betting a
warrant would be found to have been issued last week to intercept my
emails?    :)

to get a warrant, the cops need a judge to sign it. for the judge to
sign it, they need the cops to show they have good reason to suspect
there will be something to find - this is why the executive
(represented by the police) and the judiciary are separate in our
legal system, to prevent this sort of thing happening. there have been
many, many cases of police obtaining crucial evidence through illegal
searches, and entire cases being thrown out of court because of it.

i recall a particular instance in the states where a cop searched a
car, which led to the kidnapper of a child being arrested. turned out
the cop had no legal reason to search the car, and the whole case
against the driver/kidnapper was dropped because all the evidence
collected against him stemmed from that one event

even by my standards it's paranoid to expect back-dated warrants, with
no valid reason for their issue, to appear after the event.

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[Bruce Kingsbury]

Post by Robin Paulson
i recall a particular instance in the states where a cop searched a
car, which led to the kidnapper of a child being arrested. turned out
the cop had no legal reason to search the car, and the whole case
against the driver/kidnapper was dropped because all the evidence
collected against him stemmed from that one event

Did they give the child back too?

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[Nick Rout]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Jethro Carr

Post by Jethro Carr

Post by Jaco van der Merwe
Do you honestly believe the state does not already have invisible
lawful interception capabilities built into your network
service-provider's infrastructure (&  dictated by law to boot!)?

NZ ISPs are legally required to provide the capability to intercept
customer connections, but that's on a case-by-case basis and I presume,
would require a court order/warrant.
There's nothing like a system recording all data sent through for all
customers if that's what your worried about.**
** with the exception of txt messages, apparently the telcos have an
archive which contains recently sent messages.

Anyone involved in the criminal court system knows this (except, it
would seem the criminals). I was recently counsel in a long trial
where text messages formed a fairly major part of the Crown's case.
Particularly bad from one defendant's point of view was the txt along
the lines "if the c*** comes round here I'll f***n stab him." - which
is what happened. He is now serving a life sentence. It's always hard
to gauge why a jury reaches a particular view, but having been close
to the action I feel pretty sure that particular txt was influential.

Anyway from a defence counsel's perspective people are often idiots
with text messages. From a police perspective they are a goldmine.
Serve a search warrant on Telecom for all the messages to or from a
group of phone numbers over X period and they send a lovely
spreadsheet. In that particular trial there were thousands of messages
involved over a period of about a week leading up to the stabbing. For
evidential puposes the number was culled down to a couple of hundred,
all of those ultimately in the 18 hours leading up to the incident.

Other cases where they often feature: drug conspiracies, breaches of
protection order, and many others.

Moral of the story - txt messages are NOT fleeting wisps which are
here today gone tomorrow.

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[Steve Withers]

Maps [brut] does turn-by-turn bnav for Android.

It's a hacked version of Google Maps that opens up Google Nav for countries
that Google currently don't support.

You do not need to be root. Just download it and install it. It works
happily alongside the usual Google Maps...even if different versions.

It's free and it works really well. Been using it for months.

You'll have to Google it as it isn't in the Market. Try blackdroid.net or
the foundation thread for the app on xda-developers (Google prolly req'd to
find that).

Steve Withers
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[phone]

Post by Peter Harrison
Just wondering if anyone knows of a turn by turn navigation
application for New Zealand for the Android?
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[Nick Rout]

Post by Steve Withers
Maps [brut] does turn-by-turn bnav for Android.
It's a hacked version of Google Maps that opens up Google Nav for countries
that Google currently don't support.
You do not need to be root. Just download it and install it. It works
happily alongside the usual Google Maps...even if different versions.
It's free and it works really well. Been using it for months.
You'll have to Google it as it isn't in the Market. Try blackdroid.net or
the foundation thread for the app on xda-developers (Google prolly req'd to
find that).

you are (mainly) repeating what has earlier been said in this thread!

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[Phill Coxon]

Post by Nick Rout
you are (mainly) repeating what has earlier been said in this thread!

I missed the first post so I'm happy to see it again and now have Maps
Brut installed.

Looking forward to trying it out later today. :)


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