openstreetmap new zealand and apache virtual hosts

[Robin Paulson]

i'm sure most of you know about openstreetmap - for those that don't,
it's a freely editiable, creative commons-licensed map of the world.
think of it as wikipedia for maps. see http://osm.org for more info

a small group of us are working on growing the community in new
zealand, and part of that is launching the openstreetmap new zealand
web site, hosted on my vps.

the code for the site is about ready to go, but as i am already
hosting other things at a different domain we apparently need virtual
hosts, which is beyond my expertise. so, is anyone willing to lend a
hand/point us in the right direction to get this up and running?

cheers

[Tim McNamara]

Post by Robin Paulson
the code for the site is about ready to go, but as i am already
hosting other things at a different domain we apparently need virtual
hosts, which is beyond my expertise. so, is anyone willing to lend a
hand/point us in the right direction to get this up and running?

If you're not really interested in learning Apache config syntax, I
recommend using Cherokee[1]. As well as being blazingly fast, it also has
the easiest administration of any web server I know.

Tim
@timClicks


[1] http://www.cherokee-project.com/
_______________________________________________
NZLUG mailing list ***@linux.net.nz
http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug

[Hadley Rich]

Post by Tim McNamara
If you're not really interested in learning Apache config syntax, I
recommend using Cherokee[1]. As well as being blazingly fast, it also
has the easiest administration of any web server I know.

Cherokee is pretty neat. I've relatively recently shifted a few servers
from Apache to Cherokee and am very happy with it.

hads

[Nevyn]

Post by Robin Paulson
the code for the site is about ready to go, but as i am already
hosting other things at a different domain we apparently need virtual
hosts, which is beyond my expertise. so, is anyone willing to lend a
hand/point us in the right direction to get this up and running?
cheers
--
robin

Loads of distributions are actually set up with virtualhosts to begin
with so this may be fairly trivial. Have you considered instead using
something along the lines of webmin to handle this sort of thing for
you? Otherwise, finding a guide on the net isn't too much of a hassle.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

_______________________________________________
NZLUG mailing list ***@linux.net.nz
http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug

[Nick Rout]

Post by Nevyn

Post by Robin Paulson
the code for the site is about ready to go, but as i am already
hosting other things at a different domain we apparently need virtual
hosts, which is beyond my expertise. so, is anyone willing to lend a
hand/point us in the right direction to get this up and running?
cheers
--
robin

Loads of distributions are actually set up with virtualhosts to begin
with so this may be fairly trivial.

gentoo has an excellent virtual hosts setup

Post by Nevyn
Have you considered instead using
something along the lines of webmin to handle this sort of thing for
you? Otherwise, finding a guide on the net isn't too much of a hassle.
Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
_______________________________________________
http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug

_______________________________________________
NZLUG mailing list ***@linux.net.nz
http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug

[Robin Paulson]

If you're already running apache then setting up multiple virtual
hosts is simpler than it might sound.

so it is!

thanks for all the suggestions and offers of help guys, appreciated

so, i got the site running, domain name purchased and dns sorted. but
there's a dumb problem somewhere - i'm sure it's staring me right in
the face

the site loads ok, but no map. if i examine the source of index.html,
the links to the .js files tell me "not found on this server" - which
is odd, because they're there. trying to load the folder directly
gives me a 403, while loading other folders (say images) works fine.
all the other files in the site (html, css, png) load fine also.

to further confuse things, it displayed fine when it was a page on my
other site (hosted on the same vps) - it's only happened since i set
up the virtual hosts in apache. perhaps my apache fu is less than i
thought:

<VirtualHost *:80>
ServerAdmin ***@gmail.com

ServerName www.openstreetmap.org.nz
DocumentRoot /var/www/osm_org_nz/
</VirtualHost>

is there anything i need to explicitly define here to allow javascript to work?

or any other suggestions to fix this?

cheers

[Steve Holdoway]

Post by Robin Paulson

If you're already running apache then setting up multiple virtual
hosts is simpler than it might sound.

so it is!
thanks for all the suggestions and offers of help guys, appreciated
so, i got the site running, domain name purchased and dns sorted. but
there's a dumb problem somewhere - i'm sure it's staring me right in
the face
the site loads ok, but no map. if i examine the source of index.html,
the links to the .js files tell me "not found on this server" - which
is odd, because they're there. trying to load the folder directly
gives me a 403, while loading other folders (say images) works fine.
all the other files in the site (html, css, png) load fine also.
to further confuse things, it displayed fine when it was a page on my
other site (hosted on the same vps) - it's only happened since i set
up the virtual hosts in apache. perhaps my apache fu is less than i
<VirtualHost *:80>
ServerName www.openstreetmap.org.nz
DocumentRoot /var/www/osm_org_nz/
</VirtualHost>
is there anything i need to explicitly define here to allow javascript to work?
or any other suggestions to fix this?
cheers

OpenLayers.js, OpenStreetmap.js and site.js ( plus any others you call
from there ) should be in /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript. To be sure
thy're always found, you may want to use absolute paths from the
DocumentRoot ( eg /javascript/OpenLayers.js instead of
javascript/OpenLayers.js ) and many SEO'ists would suggest you use
http://www.openstreetmap.org.nz/javascript/OpenLayers.js instead.

hth,

Steve

[Robin Paulson]

On 31 January 2011 15:01, Steve Holdoway

Post by Steve Holdoway
OpenLayers.js, OpenStreetmap.js and site.js ( plus any others you call
from there ) should be in /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript. To be sure
thy're always found, you may want to use absolute paths from the
DocumentRoot ( eg  /javascript/OpenLayers.js instead of
javascript/OpenLayers.js ) and many SEO'ists would suggest you use
http://www.openstreetmap.org.nz/javascript/OpenLayers.js instead.

i don't exactly know what you mean by "use absolute paths from the
DocumentRoot", but i don't think that's the problem - when i click on
the last link there, nothing displays. i think this is an access
issue, but i may be wrong

[Steve Holdoway]

Post by Robin Paulson
On 31 January 2011 15:01, Steve Holdoway

Post by Steve Holdoway
OpenLayers.js, OpenStreetmap.js and site.js ( plus any others you call
from there ) should be in /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript. To be sure
thy're always found, you may want to use absolute paths from the
DocumentRoot ( eg /javascript/OpenLayers.js instead of
javascript/OpenLayers.js ) and many SEO'ists would suggest you use
http://www.openstreetmap.org.nz/javascript/OpenLayers.js instead.

i don't exactly know what you mean by "use absolute paths from the
DocumentRoot", but i don't think that's the problem - when i click on
the last link there, nothing displays. i think this is an access
issue, but i may be wrong

absolute = it starts with a /
on the disk this = /var/www/osm_org_nz

so your scripts on disk in /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript are
in /javascript when served to the casual browser by apache.

If I try to open
http://www.openstreetmap.org.nz/javascript/OpenLayers.js

I get told that the file was not found.

Can you post the output from...

ps -ef | grep http

and

ls -la /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript

please???

Cheers,

Steve

[Robin Paulson]

On 31 January 2011 15:21, Steve Holdoway >> i don't exactly know what
you mean by "use absolute paths from the

Post by Steve Holdoway
absolute = it starts with a /
on the disk this = /var/www/osm_org_nz
so your scripts on disk in /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript are
in /javascript when served to the casual browser by apache.

yeah, i thought of that - but it loads the images and css ok, and
they're referenced in the same manner (to my untrained eye anyway)

Post by Steve Holdoway
If I try to open
http://www.openstreetmap.org.nz/javascript/OpenLayers.js
I get told that the file was not found.
Can you post the output from...
ps -ef | grep http

robin 4245 4220 0 15:35 pts/0 00:00:00 grep http

Post by Steve Holdoway
ls -la /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript

drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-01-15 11:14 .
drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 2011-01-15 11:30 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 572604 2011-01-15 11:14 OpenLayers.js
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7155 2011-01-15 11:14 OpenStreetMap.js
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7434 2011-01-15 11:14 site.js

[Steve Holdoway]

Post by Robin Paulson
On 31 January 2011 15:21, Steve Holdoway >> i don't exactly know what
you mean by "use absolute paths from the

Post by Steve Holdoway
absolute = it starts with a /
on the disk this = /var/www/osm_org_nz
so your scripts on disk in /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript are
in /javascript when served to the casual browser by apache.

yeah, i thought of that - but it loads the images and css ok, and
they're referenced in the same manner (to my untrained eye anyway)

Post by Steve Holdoway
If I try to open
http://www.openstreetmap.org.nz/javascript/OpenLayers.js
I get told that the file was not found.
Can you post the output from...
ps -ef | grep http

robin 4245 4220 0 15:35 pts/0 00:00:00 grep http

Uh, ok it'll probably be a debianesque os, and you'll need to look for
apache instead of http.

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Steve Holdoway
ls -la /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript

drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-01-15 11:14 .
drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 2011-01-15 11:30 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 572604 2011-01-15 11:14 OpenLayers.js
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7155 2011-01-15 11:14 OpenStreetMap.js
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7434 2011-01-15 11:14 site.js

However, all files/directories are world readable so it shouldn't be a
problem. The only ithe thing I can think of is that there's an alias /
scriptalias for javascript in the config / /var/www/osm_org_nz/.htaccess
that's pointing /javascript elsewhere.

Steve.

[Robin Paulson]

Post by Steve Holdoway

robin     4245  4220  0 15:35 pts/0    00:00:00 grep http

Uh, ok it'll probably be a debianesque os, and you'll need to look for
apache instead of http.

yeah, ubuntu 10.04
ps -ef | grep apache

gives:
root 675 1 0 14:17 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 683 675 0 14:17 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 754 675 0 14:26 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 793 675 0 14:28 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 3969 675 0 14:52 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 4311 675 0 15:42 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 4312 675 0 15:42 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 7395 675 0 16:12 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 7426 675 0 16:19 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 7441 675 0 16:22 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
www-data 13821 675 0 18:21 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
robin 17361 17282 0 20:03 pts/0 00:00:00 grep apache

Post by Steve Holdoway

drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2011-01-15 11:14 .
drwxr-xr-x 5 root root   4096 2011-01-15 11:30 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 572604 2011-01-15 11:14 OpenLayers.js
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   7155 2011-01-15 11:14 OpenStreetMap.js
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   7434 2011-01-15 11:14 site.js

However, all files/directories are world readable so it shouldn't be a
problem. The only ithe thing I can think of is that there's an alias /
scriptalias for javascript in the config / /var/www/osm_org_nz/.htaccess
that's pointing /javascript elsewhere.

no, there's no .htaccess file here (or anywhere)

[DL Neil]

Post by Steve Holdoway

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Steve Holdoway
If I try to open
http://www.openstreetmap.org.nz/javascript/OpenLayers.js
I get told that the file was not found.
ps -ef | grep http

robin 4245 4220 0 15:35 pts/0 00:00:00 grep http

Uh, ok it'll probably be a debianesque os, and you'll need to look for
apache instead of http.

=if the HTML and CSS is served, can we not assume that Apache is running?

=please confirm that you are using the URL and http protocol (not
file://...) to access the page?

Post by Steve Holdoway

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Steve Holdoway
ls -la /var/www/osm_org_nz/javascript

drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-01-15 11:14 .
drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 2011-01-15 11:30 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 572604 2011-01-15 11:14 OpenLayers.js
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7155 2011-01-15 11:14 OpenStreetMap.js
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7434 2011-01-15 11:14 site.js

=please verify that capitalisation is consistent in the HTML code and
the directory and fileNMs.

=it may be helpful to post a snippet of the HTML <script> code...

Post by Steve Holdoway
However, all files/directories are world readable so it shouldn't be a
problem. The only ithe thing I can think of is that there's an alias /
scriptalias for javascript in the config / /var/www/osm_org_nz/.htaccess
that's pointing /javascript elsewhere.

=indeed, please remember that the Vhost 'inherits' all settings from the
main parts of the .conf file(s)
[fileNM and it consisting of one/multiple components varies by
distribution, eg apache, apache2 and httpd confusion] Accordingly, if
there is anything or nothing earlier, you must either accept it within
the Vhost definition, turn it off, or turn it on - to suit this
particular Vhost.


=please check that your browser is set to run .js and that there are no
blocks to it doing-so, eg Firefox's NoScript extension.

=is the site currently world accessible? (so we could come and have a
look for ourselves)

=how about a quick debug script, eg "hello world", which you can add to
the HTML?
1) put the script in the (Vhost's) root directory (ie alongside the HTML
page), code accordingly, and run...
2) move the script to the "javascript", add "/javascript/" to the
<script> definition, and run...

Please advise,
=dn

_______________________________________________
NZLUG mailing list ***@linux.net.nz
http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug

[Steve Holdoway]

Post by DL Neil

Post by Steve Holdoway

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Steve Holdoway
If I try to open
http://www.openstreetmap.org.nz/javascript/OpenLayers.js
I get told that the file was not found.
ps -ef | grep http

robin 4245 4220 0 15:35 pts/0 00:00:00 grep http

Uh, ok it'll probably be a debianesque os, and you'll need to look for
apache instead of http.

=if the HTML and CSS is served, can we not assume that Apache is running?
=please confirm that you are using the URL and http protocol (not
file://...) to access the page?

... I was actually trying to ascertain the owner of the web server to
check it had access to the javascript files (:

Steve
--
Steve Holdoway <***@greengecko.co.nz>
http://www.greengecko.co.nz
MSN: ***@greengecko.co.nz
Skype: sholdowa


_______________________________________________
NZLUG mailing list ***@linux.net.nz
http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug

[Robin Paulson]

Perhaps they should go in /usr/share/javascript - depends on how things are
configured.
'tail -f /var/log/apache2/err.log' can be helpful

yes, that's it! it was looking in /usr/share

so, would it be best to move all the js to /usr/share (i don't like
that so much, it breaks the site up in to two locations), or point
apache at a different location for the js (someone here mentioned a
.htaccess file), or would that be better done in apache config?

I hope the machine is chunky, I expect it'll work pretty hard.

i would expect it to be fairly simple - it's only serving a few files,
all the tiles are elsewhere and there's no server-side scripting

but my knowledge of this is low - which part do you think would push it hard?

[DL Neil]

Post by Robin Paulson
so, would it be best to move all the js to /usr/share (i don't like
that so much, it breaks the site up in to two locations), or point
apache at a different location for the js (someone here mentioned a
.htaccess file), or would that be better done in apache config?

=the Apache .conf is a better choice - it is only read when the server
is started, whereas .htaccess is read at every page request (as is every
other .htaccess file within the active hierarchy of directories).

=however, many do not have access to the .conf and must fall-back to
using .htaccess (which was, after-all, the situation for which it was
invented!)


=perhaps I'm mis-remembering or thinking of another list conversation.
Isn't this a VPS? (in which case the OP 'owns' everything, and has full
control and access - surely?)

=Regards,
=dn

_______________________________________________
NZLUG mailing list ***@linux.net.nz
http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug

[Steve Holdoway]

Post by DL Neil

Post by Robin Paulson
so, would it be best to move all the js to /usr/share (i don't like
that so much, it breaks the site up in to two locations), or point
apache at a different location for the js (someone here mentioned a
.htaccess file), or would that be better done in apache config?

Personally, I'd move them to a subdir with a different name -
like .../js - and modify the html accordingly. Keep the local scripts
local.

Post by DL Neil
=the Apache .conf is a better choice - it is only read when the server
is started, whereas .htaccess is read at every page request (as is every
other .htaccess file within the active hierarchy of directories).

True, but surprisingly rarely makes any noticeable difference.

Post by DL Neil
=however, many do not have access to the .conf and must fall-back to
using .htaccess (which was, after-all, the situation for which it was
invented!)
=perhaps I'm mis-remembering or thinking of another list conversation.
Isn't this a VPS? (in which case the OP 'owns' everything, and has full
control and access - surely?)

Not quite sure what you mean here... security on a VPS is like any
physical server.

Post by DL Neil
=Regards,
=dn

Steve
--
Steve Holdoway <***@greengecko.co.nz>
http://www.greengecko.co.nz
MSN: ***@greengecko.co.nz
Skype: sholdowa


_______________________________________________
NZLUG mailing list ***@linux.net.nz
http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug

[Mark Robinson]

Post by Robin Paulson

Perhaps they should go in /usr/share/javascript - depends on how things are
configured.
'tail -f /var/log/apache2/err.log' can be helpful

yes, that's it! it was looking in /usr/share
so, would it be best to move all the js to /usr/share (i don't like
that so much, it breaks the site up in to two locations), or point
apache at a different location for the js (someone here mentioned a
.htaccess file), or would that be better done in apache config?

I think the idea is twofold: firstly to avoid having multiple copies of common
files all over the server and secondly, less so for javascript but considerably
moreso for server side stuff (php), it places the include files in a place
where they can't be served unintentionally.

Of .htaccess and apache config: Given that it has it's own vhost putting it in
sites-available/osm.org.nz_whatever seems more secure. /usr/share/osm/ seems
like an atractive idea. Less attractively I guess building the whole lot into a
.deb is a viable way to maintain control of what is where.

Post by Robin Paulson

I hope the machine is chunky, I expect it'll work pretty hard.

i would expect it to be fairly simple - it's only serving a few files,
all the tiles are elsewhere and there's no server-side scripting
but my knowledge of this is low - which part do you think would push it hard?

My experience is more of mapscript etc which works hard to render maps even for
very few users. If your server doesn't have to do much thinking it shouldn't be
so bad.

I noticed that many of the links take me to osm.org rather than staying on the
site.


_______________________________________________
NZLUG mailing list ***@linux.net.nz
http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug

[Robin Paulson]

Post by Mark Robinson
I think the idea is twofold: firstly to avoid having multiple copies of
common files all over the server and secondly, less so for javascript but
considerably moreso for server side stuff (php), it places the include files
in a place where they can't be served unintentionally.
Of .htaccess and apache config: Given that it has it's own vhost putting it
in sites-available/osm.org.nz_whatever seems more secure. /usr/share/osm/

yeah, i've put them in /usr/share/javascript/ for the moment, until i
figure out how to redirect apache to look in /var/ for js (absolute
paths aren't doing it - it gets very confused)

Post by Mark Robinson
seems like an atractive idea. Less attractively I guess building the whole
lot into a .deb is a viable way to maintain control of what is where.

hmm, perhaps a bit more than necessary - i can't see anyone else using
it, and there's not a whole lot of files

Post by Mark Robinson
My experience is more of mapscript etc which works hard to render maps even
for very few users. If your server doesn't have to do much thinking it
shouldn't be so bad.

right - i assume mapscript uses vectors rather than rasters, and/or
generates images on-the-fly? www.openstreetmap.org.nz is merely
re-displaying tiles which exist elsewhere.

at some point the aim is to create nz-specific tiles (e.g. with maori
names), but that's for the future, and a hell of a lot more powerful
machine

Post by Mark Robinson
I noticed that many of the links take me to osm.org rather than staying on
the site.

this is correct. i think of the site more as a nz-specific wrapper
around the osm.org map and wiki, with info to enable interested people
here to get involved.

i don't see much value in creating a lot of content for the site beyond that

[Ben M.]

Hi Robyn,

Meant to reply when this came in;

What do you mean by "growing the community"? Getting more people to Use
OpenStreetMap, more community additions?

I am interested, quite like it and I note that a lot of the geodata and physical
assets on the NZ bit are incomplete or in fact incorrect, especially North of
Auckland, ie Whangaparaoa and the Fang Peninsula.

Must get along to Tangleball sometime too.




________________________________
From: Robin Paulson <***@gmail.com>
To: NZLUG Mailing List <***@linux.net.nz>
Sent: Fri, 28 January, 2011 2:13:39 PM
Subject: [nzlug] openstreetmap new zealand and apache virtual hosts

i'm sure most of you know about openstreetmap - for those that don't,
it's a freely editiable, creative commons-licensed map of the world.
think of it as wikipedia for maps. see http://osm.org for more info

a small group of us are working on growing the community in new
zealand, and part of that is launching the openstreetmap new zealand
web site, hosted on my vps.

the code for the site is about ready to go, but as i am already
hosting other things at a different domain we apparently need virtual
hosts, which is beyond my expertise. so, is anyone willing to lend a
hand/point us in the right direction to get this up and running?

cheers

[Robin Paulson]

On 31 January 2011 18:23, Ben M. <***@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi Ben,
answers inline

Post by Ben M.
Hi Robyn,
Meant to reply when this came in;
What do you mean by "growing the community"? Getting more people to Use
OpenStreetMap, more community additions?

mainly the latter - the former will come as a consequence of that.
closed map services partly have dominance through good marketing,
partly through good service/product. if we make the latter better, the
former becomes less important

Post by Ben M.
I am interested, quite like it and I note that a lot of the geodata and physical
assets on the NZ bit are incomplete or in fact incorrect, especially North of
Auckland, ie Whangaparaoa and the Fang Peninsula.

do you collect/edit data for osm? are you interested in joining in
with osm new zealand? we will be hosting meetings starting sometime
soon

we'll be working on the LINZ import web application, holding workshops
on editing and collecting data, and various other items - probably at
tangle ball. i'll announce on here when we're ready. or shout if you'd
like to get involved now (anyone else, too)

Post by Ben M.
Must get along to Tangleball sometime too.

cool - we're open every tuesday from around 7:45 to talk about/show
off our projects; feel free come along if you'd like to see the place
or some projects

also, there's an open day on this saturday, from 11am - lots of people
visiting and showing projects. all welcome