Discussion:
Good Linux alternatives to Skype?
yuri
2011-05-10 20:43:18 UTC
Permalink
With further development of the Linux version of Skype in doubt, what
good cross-platform alternatives do people recommend for video calls.
Gotta be easy for non-linux-using relatives to install and set up a
client on their Macs or Windows boxes.

Cheers
Yuri de Groot

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Robin Paulson
2011-05-10 21:31:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by yuri
With further development of the Linux version of Skype in doubt, what
good cross-platform alternatives do people recommend for video calls.
Gotta be easy for non-linux-using relatives to install and set up a
client on their Macs or Windows boxes.
this is a valid question, although personally facebook owning it per
se, regardless of linux development is of bigger concern

i'm contemplating running my own SIP server, and showing my parents how
to use ekiga. that certainly isn't to everyone's taste though, it
appears to have some learning curve

i wonder if there are any out-of-the-box simple alternatives?
--
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human rights in NZ

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Paul Campbell
2011-05-10 21:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Paulson
i wonder if there are any out-of-the-box simple alternatives?
the problem is that if you want to talk to linux people you need to use this
other program that not many people use isn't a particularly satisfactory
solution - it ghettoises us

Probably it's time for a much more concerted skype protocol reverse engineering,
publishing and reimplementation effort (we're not all the way there yet) - if MS
remove linux support US Skype users can invoke the DMCA interoperability safe
harbour provisions

Paul
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Volker Kuhlmann
2011-05-11 08:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Campbell
publishing and reimplementation effort (we're not all the way there yet) - if MS
remove linux support US Skype users can invoke the DMCA interoperability safe
harbour provisions
So Billy won't remove Linux support, he'll just keep the current Linux
app for download, not fixing any existing problems and needless to say
not release another version.

Keep looking elsewhere. Skype is dead.

Volker
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Tim McNamara
2011-05-11 10:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Campbell
Post by Paul Campbell
publishing and reimplementation effort (we're not all the way there yet)
- if MS
Post by Paul Campbell
remove linux support US Skype users can invoke the DMCA interoperability
safe
Post by Paul Campbell
harbour provisions
So Billy won't remove Linux support, he'll just keep the current Linux
app for download, not fixing any existing problems and needless to say
not release another version.
Keep looking elsewhere. Skype is dead.
I think so too. However, I noticed this line in today's stuff.co.nz article
: "However, Skype will continue to be available on non-Microsoft platforms
such as Google's Android and Apple's iPhone."[0]


[0]
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4989764/Microsofts-Skype-deal-a-headscratcher/
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Volker Kuhlmann
2011-05-12 09:38:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim McNamara
I think so too. However, I noticed this line in today's stuff.co.nz article
: "However, Skype will continue to be available on non-Microsoft platforms
such as Google's Android and Apple's iPhone."[0]
MS needs to try to keep up with the mobile platforms. You notice the
absence of Linux in the list. Keep looking for alternatives...

Volker
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Bruce Clement
2011-05-12 12:22:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim McNamara
I think so too. However, I noticed this line in today's stuff.co.nzarticle
: "However, Skype will continue to be available on non-Microsoft
platforms
such as Google's Android and Apple's iPhone."[0]
MS needs to try to keep up with the mobile platforms. You notice the
absence of Linux in the list. Keep looking for alternatives...
It doesn't matter if a closed source vendor releases Linux versions today
or next year. One day they will decide not to support your platform or you
will be faced with the exclusive choice of continuing to use their product
or moving to a different platform that interests you but not them and for
which they haven't provided their product.

This is inherent in using slave software and why you should always use Free
software.

Yesterday Skype's users were constrained by Skype's imagination, tomorrow
they will be constrained by Microsoft's. It's just business with them, it's
not like choosing between Elizabeth Báthory and Vlad Țepeș.


Bruce
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appreciation of everything that already exists in this field." Mikhail
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Adrian Mageanu
2011-05-12 12:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Clement
Yesterday Skype's users were constrained by Skype's imagination, tomorrow
they will be constrained by Microsoft's. It's just business with them, it's
not like choosing between Elizabeth Báthory and Vlad Țepeș.
Bruce
Not the best metaphorical comparison I would have chosen, but 10/10 for
good spelling - me born in the country of Vlad the Impaler

Adrian



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Adrian Mageanu
2011-05-10 22:36:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Paulson
this is a valid question, although personally facebook owning it per
se, regardless of linux development is of bigger concern
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/4987080/Microsoft-to-buy-Skype-for-US-8b

apparently things get more interesting...


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Nevyn
2011-05-10 22:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian Mageanu
 this is a valid question, although personally facebook owning it per
 se, regardless of linux development is of bigger concern
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/4987080/Microsoft-to-buy-Skype-for-US-8b
apparently things get more interesting...
From one scary big company to the next... I'm about to start playing
with Google Chat's video and voice call functionality :(

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com

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Roger Irwin
2011-05-10 23:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Has anyone used the Google talk video chat plug-in?
http://www.google.com/talk/intl/en-GB/

It says that it works under linux.
Post by yuri
With further development of the Linux version of Skype in doubt, what
good cross-platform alternatives do people recommend for video calls.
Gotta be easy for non-linux-using relatives to install and set up a
client on their Macs or Windows boxes.
Cheers
Yuri de Groot
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Shiv Manas
2011-05-11 00:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Yes, I use it all the time and it works great - both in Chromium and
Firefox. I've switched over to the Google Talk plugin a long time ago now as
I had problems getting Skype to work properly on my system. It's also easy
to recommend Google Talk to others as it's cross-platform, small and easy to
setup.
Post by Roger Irwin
Has anyone used the Google talk video chat plug-in?
http://www.google.com/talk/intl/en-GB/
It says that it works under linux.
Post by yuri
With further development of the Linux version of Skype in doubt, what
good cross-platform alternatives do people recommend for video calls.
Gotta be easy for non-linux-using relatives to install and set up a
client on their Macs or Windows boxes.
Cheers
Yuri de Groot
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Robin Paulson
2011-05-11 00:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shiv Manas
Yes, I use it all the time and it works great - both in Chromium and
Firefox. I've switched over to the Google Talk plugin a long time ago now as
I had problems getting Skype to work properly on my system. It's also easy
to recommend Google Talk to others as it's cross-platform, small and easy to
setup.
not to mention being controlled (and probably data-mined) by a company
even more omnipotent, invasive and willing to trample over its user
rights than even microsoft.
--
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http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic
human rights in NZ

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Vik Olliver
2011-05-11 00:43:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Paulson
not to mention being controlled (and probably data-mined) by a company
even more omnipotent, invasive and willing to trample over its user
rights than even microsoft.
But they do it in a cheerful, open and non-evil way, right?

Vik :v)

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Nevyn
2011-05-11 01:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vik Olliver
Post by Robin Paulson
not to mention being controlled (and probably data-mined) by a company
even more omnipotent, invasive and willing to trample over its user
rights than even microsoft.
But they do it in a cheerful, open and non-evil way, right?
Vik :v)
I'm sure evilness is a matter of perspective... Read: shareholders of
DOW Chemicals would see it as evil to clean up Bhopal (If you haven't
already, watch "The Yes Men Fix The World" - available legally via
p2p).

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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Xav Paice
2011-05-11 05:15:01 UTC
Permalink
Google Talk via Empathy seems to work OK. Only problem is that for Mac users the Google Talk bit in iTalk doesn't do voice/video so they have to have their browser open to make it go (which is where Skype seems to work better).

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Simon Bridge
2011-05-12 08:14:13 UTC
Permalink
Perhaps we need an overview of these things along with a howto for the
major systems ... including mobile platforms where the app exists? Then
it can be promoted/presented to the tech zines with the monicker "skype
+MS not the end of the world" or something?
Post by Xav Paice
Google Talk via Empathy seems to work OK. Only problem is that for Mac users the Google Talk bit in iTalk doesn't do voice/video so they have to have their browser open to make it go (which is where Skype seems to work better).
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Dagan McGregor
2011-05-11 01:35:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by yuri
With further development of the Linux version of Skype in doubt, what
good cross-platform alternatives do people recommend for video calls.
Gotta be easy for non-linux-using relatives to install and set up a
client on their Macs or Windows boxes.
I realise it's not much use just yet, but I am hoping this project
picks up development to get some actual software to use

http://planet.gnu.org/gnutelephony/?p=14

For voice chat, there server-based alternatives, of the "usually used
for computer game, but not always" variety, the likes of Mumble
http://mumble.sourceforge.net/

There might be some extensions of XMPP for video chat, but I haven't
tried any of them.

Dagan

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Rob Connolly
2011-05-11 02:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by yuri
With further development of the Linux version of Skype in doubt, what
good cross-platform alternatives do people recommend for video calls.
Gotta be easy for non-linux-using relatives to install and set up a
client on their Macs or Windows boxes.
 I realise it's not much use just yet, but I am hoping this project picks up
development to get some actual software to use
 http://planet.gnu.org/gnutelephony/?p=14
 For voice chat, there server-based alternatives, of the "usually used for
computer game, but not always" variety, the likes of Mumble
http://mumble.sourceforge.net/
 There might be some extensions of XMPP for video chat, but I haven't tried
any of them.
There are extensions for both voice and video chat. This is supported
in empathy if the user at the other end has a supported client, though
I haven't tried it.

Rob

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Robin Sheat
2011-05-11 05:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dagan McGregor
I realise it's not much use just yet, but I am hoping this project
picks up development to get some actual software to use
http://planet.gnu.org/gnutelephony/?p=14
GNU Free Call is the thing I think we should be focussing on. It's still
new, but if it can get a bit of energy behind it, could be a nice skype
challenger. Getting the mindshare is the hardest bit of course, but
having something that works is a critical step too.

Robin.
Jan Bakuwel
2011-05-11 04:49:24 UTC
Permalink
A friend of mine suggested jitsi (http://www.jitsi.org) - I'm looking
into it...

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Xav Paice
2011-05-11 05:18:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Bakuwel
A friend of mine suggested jitsi (http://www.jitsi.org) - I'm looking
into it...
+1 on that - I used it for SIP access to my work phone line, but the sound quality isn't as good as using Empathy (and now I finally found the dial pad in Empathy I probably won't bother with Jitsi again).

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Martin Frauenstein
2011-05-13 05:08:18 UTC
Permalink
This last week I was less productive than most others. Most of my time
was spent looking for alternatives.

I believe that Goggle Talk and Empathy will probably end up being the
replacement for PC based solutions.
Those that want want a completely left field working solution contact
off list or visit http://www.phonensee.com

Martin Frauenstein
<http://www.tsdintl.com/>*
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1. PostgreSQL developers (Greg Stevenson)
2. Re: PostgreSQL developers (Martin D Kealey)
3. Alternatives to Skype period (Simon Bridge)
4. Re: Good Linux alternatives to Skype? (Volker Kuhlmann)
5. Re: Good Linux alternatives to Skype? (Bruce Clement)
6. Re: Good Linux alternatives to Skype? (Adrian Mageanu)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:32:03 +1200
Subject: [nzlug] PostgreSQL developers
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Anyone know of any Auckland PostgreSQL developers who might be interested in
a small job.
Seems like postgres user groups are pretty inactive in NZ.
Hoping that Linux users might have an idea of who is doing what in the open
source database arena.
Contact off list
Regards
Greg
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:59:23 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: [nzlug] PostgreSQL developers
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Anyone know of any Auckland PostgreSQL developers who might be interested
in a small job.
Do you mean someone who can modify the PostgreSQL engine (a guru C
programmer) or someone who can manage a running PostgreSQL server (a
database administrator), or someone who can write applications that use a
PostgreSQL server as their database engine (an application developer).
If the latter, which language(s) are of interest? ("SQL" is the trivial
part; what *other* languages do you want?)
-Martin
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:14:13 +1200
Subject: [nzlug] Alternatives to Skype period
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Perhaps we need an overview of these things along with a howto for the
major systems ... including mobile platforms where the app exists? Then
it can be promoted/presented to the tech zines with the monicker "skype
+MS not the end of the world" or something?
Google Talk via Empathy seems to work OK. Only problem is that for Mac users the Google Talk bit in iTalk doesn't do voice/video so they have to have their browser open to make it go (which is where Skype seems to work better).
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 21:38:31 +1200
Subject: Re: [nzlug] Good Linux alternatives to Skype?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I think so too. However, I noticed this line in today's stuff.co.nz article
: "However, Skype will continue to be available on non-Microsoft platforms
such as Google's Android and Apple's iPhone."[0]
MS needs to try to keep up with the mobile platforms. You notice the
absence of Linux in the list. Keep looking for alternatives...
Volker
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Robin Paulson
2011-06-02 00:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by yuri
With further development of the Linux version of Skype in doubt, what
good cross-platform alternatives do people recommend for video calls.
Gotta be easy for non-linux-using relatives to install and set up a
client on their Macs or Windows boxes.
Google open sources $68.2m realtime comm platform:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/01/google_open_sources_webrtc/

"Google has open sourced a framework for realtime video and audio
inside the browser. Known as WebRTC, the framework is based on
technology the company acquired with its $68.2 million purchase of
Global IP Solutions (GIPS) last year."

decent protocols included as well. mostly built from html and js

looks interesting - it'll have the google sheen and simplicity no
doubt. i wonder if this was their in-place backup ready if they couldn't
beat what the competition was willing to pay for skype?
--
robin

http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic
human rights in NZ

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Jaco van der Merwe
2011-06-02 00:59:10 UTC
Permalink
Nice!

People have been pondering what they were planning on doing since their acquisition of Gizmo a while back (the only real competitor to skype at that stage).
I know that they make use of pretty standards-compliant XMPP for GTalk & their own VoIP solution.

So Google is not so evil after all; just slightly *less* evil than the others ;/

- J



________________________________
From: Robin Paulson <***@bumblepuppy.org>
To: NZLUG Mailing List <***@linux.net.nz>
Sent: Thursday, 2 June 2011, 12:33
Subject: Re: [nzlug] Good Linux alternatives to Skype?
Post by yuri
With further development of the Linux version of Skype in doubt, what
good cross-platform alternatives do people recommend for video calls.
Gotta be easy for non-linux-using relatives to install and set up a
client on their Macs or Windows boxes.
Google open sources $68.2m realtime comm platform:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/01/google_open_sources_webrtc/

"Google has open sourced a framework for realtime video and audio inside the browser. Known as WebRTC, the framework is based on technology the company acquired with its $68.2 million purchase of Global IP Solutions (GIPS) last year."

decent protocols included as well. mostly built from html and js

looks interesting - it'll have the google sheen and simplicity no doubt. i wonder if this was their in-place backup ready if they couldn't beat what the competition was willing to pay for skype?

-- robin

http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ

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Nevyn
2011-06-02 21:53:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaco van der Merwe
So Google is not so evil after all; just slightly *less* evil than the others ;/
- J
*lmao* that's rather bold....

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/

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Jaco van der Merwe
2011-06-02 22:12:58 UTC
Permalink
________________________________
Post by Nevyn
*lmao* that's rather bold....
yip, it is.
at present there are no perfect solution; just a series of choices from shades of grey (aka "compromise")

hell, even simply picking up a telephone (or making us of the internet), we are taking part & validating these multi-national conglomerates that put their share-holders interests before their own customer's.
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Tim McNamara
2011-06-02 22:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaco van der Merwe
Post by Jaco van der Merwe
So Google is not so evil after all; just slightly *less* evil than the
others ;/
Post by Jaco van der Merwe
- J
*lmao* that's rather bold....
I don't really think so. The world is a much better place with Google in it.
I'm consistently impressed with its efforts to minimise its negative
impacts. More importantly however, the company continues to provide the
world with positive impacts. I'm biased, but I love that it has been able to
propel machine learning out of academia and into tools that make people's
lives better.

No, it tends not to release copyleft code. However, I still feel that FOSS
proponents have a lot to be thankful for. It has moved the established norms
of very large companies towards openness. That transition is not complete,
but Google's practices have a large gravity. My hunch is that databases,
networking and other infrastructure now scales much better on commodity
machines than what might have otherwise happened without Google.

Moreover, I see Google's impact within the FOSS world as positive. Most,
almost all (?), of its software is cross-compatible. They make an effort to
support FOSS communities with funds, hosting and paid students. Now, it's
likely that this is a marketing or recruitment effort.

Now, all entities have interests.

I see the V8 & spdy efforts as a way to remove barriers to adopting Google's
products delivered via the web. They're not simply spending millions of
dollars to develop products to give away for free. They're spending millions
of dollars to make millions elsewhere. I don't define that as an evil
practice.



[trying hard to avoid spinning conversation to utilitarianism v Kantianism v
virtue ethics mess]
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Robin Paulson
2011-06-02 22:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaco van der Merwe
People have been pondering what they were planning on doing since
their acquisition of Gizmo a while back (the only real competitor to
skype at that stage).
I know that they make use of pretty standards-compliant XMPP for
GTalk & their own VoIP solution.
So Google is not so evil after all; just slightly *less* evil than the others ;/
the problems with google arise from the vast amounts of data they
gather on everyone who uses their service, and its subsequent use to
push us to buy more shit.

the system they have released is completely open, meaning i can run it
independently of their data-mining

rather than 'google is evil' which instantly sets up one side of an
over-simplistic good/bad binary, i would say 'a lot of what google does
is bad, but some is good'. this move is good. very good imo.

on the other hand, if one were being very cynical, one could suggest
this move will push more people to (a) use the internet (an entity which
is rapidly becoming synonymous with google, facebook, twitter and
several other large entities [1] who don't always behave so well), and
(b) believe that google is benign/a good net citizen. but that would be
very cynical

[1] i don't have a link, but there was an article on i think slashdot a
month or two back suggesting some vast percentage of the world's net use
is via less than ten sites. i'd like to read it again if someone has the
link handy?
--
robin

http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic
human rights in NZ

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