is anyone here using the new ubuntu, 11.10?

[Robin Paulson]

i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all with
unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.

it's different enough to v2 to be annoying, and i can't figure out how
to change things - searching the web hasn't helped either. perhaps
someone can help?

is there a way to make the top and bottom panels autohide? there's no
right-click menu anymore

and how do i get back the 'system' menu?

any clues on how to add launchers to the top panel as well?

how do i get rid of the workspace switcher?

any other suggestions to make v3 more like v2?

[Dave Lane]

Hi Robin,

Yep, using 11.10 with Unity at the moment. Didn't get on with Gnome 3
very well, so ditched it. Have managed to make Unity more or less
usable. I found a LOT of "how to" websites via Google. I suggest you
just try asking Google about what you're trying to achieve. I suspect
you'll be amazed at how many others are in a similar situation.

Cheers,

Dave

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all with
unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.
it's different enough to v2 to be annoying, and i can't figure out how
to change things - searching the web hasn't helped either. perhaps
someone can help?
is there a way to make the top and bottom panels autohide? there's no
right-click menu anymore
and how do i get back the 'system' menu?
any clues on how to add launchers to the top panel as well?
how do i get rid of the workspace switcher?
any other suggestions to make v3 more like v2?

[Robin Paulson]

Post by Dave Lane
Yep, using 11.10 with Unity at the moment. Didn't get on with Gnome 3
very well, so ditched it. Have managed to make Unity more or less
usable. I found a LOT of "how to" websites via Google. I suggest you
just try asking Google about what you're trying to achieve. I suspect
you'll be amazed at how many others are in a similar situation.

so, i poked around some more and found this:
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/official-gnome-shell-extensions.html

it wasn't directly useful, but got me looking further at config
options. apparently there is an editor called 'dconf', which lets one
adjust the finer points of gnome. so, now:
the workplace switcher is gone
the clock is back on the right
the top and bottom panels autohide

i can't get the system menu back yet, but that's not so high on my
list.

excellent, now it appears we are waiting for someone (yeah, she/he's
great, does everything in the whole world) to write extensions to do
this in an easier way.

[Nevyn]

Post by Robin Paulson
excellent, now it appears we are waiting for someone (yeah, she/he's
great, does everything in the whole world) to write extensions to do this
in an easier way.
<http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug>

I've taken to calling them "no one". As in, "no one's working on this just
at the moment" or "we've got no one to sort this situation out". Every
project needs a no one.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
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[Cliff Pratt]

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Dave Lane
Yep, using 11.10 with Unity at the moment. Didn't get on with Gnome 3
very well, so ditched it. Have managed to make Unity more or less
usable. I found a LOT of "how to" websites via Google. I suggest you
just try asking Google about what you're trying to achieve. I suspect
you'll be amazed at how many others are in a similar situation.

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/official-gnome-shell-extensions.html
it wasn't directly useful, but got me looking further at config options.
apparently there is an editor called 'dconf', which lets one adjust the
the workplace switcher is gone
the clock is back on the right
the top and bottom panels autohide
i can't get the system menu back yet, but that's not so high on my list.

It's in the right most drop down menu, the one under your login name.

Cheers,

Cliff


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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Cliff Pratt
It's in the right most drop down menu, the one under your login name.

ah, so it is. not quite as i'd prefer, but good enough. cheers.

i will take a punt that come the next version of ubuntu (if anyone is
still using it), there will be a pile of shell extensions, so gnome 3
looks and acts like gnome 2 if one so wishes.

i'm happy with my paradigm staying right where it is, technology
development remaining divergent, and the game staying the same

[Nevyn]

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Cliff Pratt
It's in the right most drop down menu, the one under your login name.

ah, so it is. not quite as i'd prefer, but good enough. cheers.
i will take a punt that come the next version of ubuntu (if anyone is
still using it), there will be a pile of shell extensions, so gnome 3 looks
and acts like gnome 2 if one so wishes.
i'm happy with my paradigm staying right where it is, technology
development remaining divergent, and the game staying the same
robin

It looks like Gnome 2 is being forked into MATE
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MATE
Currently only for Arch? Not so sure on that point. But yeah... enough
Gnome 2 fans out there for development to carry on on some level...

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Nevyn
It looks like Gnome 2 is being forked into MATE
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MATE
Currently only for Arch? Not so sure on that point. But yeah... enough
Gnome 2 fans out there for development to carry on on some level...

yah, a similar thing happened with kde3, which got forked into trinity
for those who didn't like the new bling:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/K_Desktop_Environment_3#Forking
http://trinitydesktop.org/

[James Paterson]

I am using Mint 10 on my desktop because of unity - it was not
to hot when I first tried it a while ago.

However I have just managed to get Arch linux with Gnome 3
working on my laptop. I just reset it up as an NFS client of my
desktop and am currently backing up my desktop data to it.
(These days I record how I do things that I might have to do
again)
Really when I am honest running things is not that different
and anything I use a lot can go in the window on the left.
otherwise its similar to using an old style menu.

Also as cliff mentioned there is dconf which the arch
beginners install wiki explained how to use to make some
sensible changes. Have not tried that yet.

The last time I tried to install Arch I found it hard and failed to
get KDE up and running, this time I found Gnome was much
easier to get running. pretty well everything I want is working.

I can see me eventually installing Arch linux on my desktop
as well - when I am confident that I can handle any problems
that come up.

best James Paterson aka RockyRedHead



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[Steve Withers]

I dislike Unity enough I make check out Mint....

I've been Ubuntu-only for most of 5 years now, but Unity may just put an
end to that.

Unity buries all the things I use a lot too deep to bothered with. I do not
like it. But it won't go away. I tried changing to Gnome and the lock
screen stopped working and I wasn't able to login without powering the PC
off. That wasn't going to carry on...

Looks like someone at Ubuntu wants to *enforce* Unity.

F*ck that...

Steve Withers

Post by Dave Lane
Hi Robin,
Yep, using 11.10 with Unity at the moment. Didn't get on with Gnome 3
very well, so ditched it. Have managed to make Unity more or less
usable. I found a LOT of "how to" websites via Google. I suggest you
just try asking Google about what you're trying to achieve. I suspect
you'll be amazed at how many others are in a similar situation.
Cheers,
Dave

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all with
unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.
it's different enough to v2 to be annoying, and i can't figure out how
to change things - searching the web hasn't helped either. perhaps
someone can help?
is there a way to make the top and bottom panels autohide? there's no
right-click menu anymore
and how do i get back the 'system' menu?
any clues on how to add launchers to the top panel as well?
how do i get rid of the workspace switcher?
any other suggestions to make v3 more like v2?

--
http://egressive.com Free/OpenSourceSoftware: because to share is human
Drupal powers communities: http://drupal.org Use Open Standards: w3.org
Software Patents kill innovation
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[Mark Foster]

Post by Steve Withers
I dislike Unity enough I make check out Mint....
I've been Ubuntu-only for most of 5 years now, but Unity may just put an
end to that.
Unity buries all the things I use a lot too deep to bothered with. I do not
like it. But it won't go away. I tried changing to Gnome and the lock
screen stopped working and I wasn't able to login without powering the PC
off. That wasn't going to carry on...
Looks like someone at Ubuntu wants to *enforce* Unity.
F*ck that...

The above behavior in Gnome I get on my 10.10 box too. The interactions
between power saving, screen locking and X seem to be buggy, as does the
dealing with an external monitor when using a laptop... the combination
meaning that if I disconnect my laptop for external screen, keyboard,
mouse and power in the wrong order, I either end up with no display, or
a hung session. I also intermittantly find that resuming from
hibernation fails.... for example just last night I had to hit
ctrl-alt-f1, login to shell, and then kill -HUP the Gnome session. This
then gave me a login box which did say 'already logged in' but when I
relogged in i'd lost all my apps.

I also find that if its running and I connect an external monitor it
wont use it unless I open 'display settings'. Inversely if I
disconnect the monitor it doesn't realise i've done this unless I close
the lid and open it again. Closing the lid triggers hibernation if im on
battery power (which is desired behavior) but with intermittant resume
failures I take my (life, work in progress) in my hands each time I do
it. Works about 90% of the time without drama, havn't yet found what
circumstances cause the 10% failures.

Mark.

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[Jaco]

The interactions between power saving, screen locking and X seem to be

buggy, as does the dealing with an external monitor when using a laptop...

My experiences with power-management under Linux (regardless of distro)
has been absolutely appalling for years now, especially on mobile devices.

I've tried tweaking it with powertop & laptop_mode (& the like), with
limited success.

One of my machines is an (oldish) macbook pro, & under OS/X the
power-management is absolutely seamless & battery lasts me for hours;
under Linux I only get a fraction of the results with loads of
idiosyncrasies.
Another of my machines is an HP mini netbook - windows' power-management
function are fine, but under Linux it's another dismal affair.

Maybe someone know the recipe to a secret sauce I don't

- J

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[Steve Holdoway]

Post by Jaco

The interactions between power saving, screen locking and X seem to be

buggy, as does the dealing with an external monitor when using a laptop...
My experiences with power-management under Linux (regardless of distro)
has been absolutely appalling for years now, especially on mobile devices.
I've tried tweaking it with powertop & laptop_mode (& the like), with
limited success.
One of my machines is an (oldish) macbook pro, & under OS/X the
power-management is absolutely seamless & battery lasts me for hours;
under Linux I only get a fraction of the results with loads of
idiosyncrasies.
Another of my machines is an HP mini netbook - windows' power-management
function are fine, but under Linux it's another dismal affair.
Maybe someone know the recipe to a secret sauce I don't
- J

didn't I read on /. that the power bug had just been fixed??

Steve

[Martin D Kealey]

My experiences with power-management under Linux (regardless of distro) has
been absolutely appalling for years now, especially on mobile devices.

That would probably be because power-management hardware has only recently
stopped churning like a dog's breakfast in a tumble-dryer.

There was a new "standards" for power management every year for like 3 or 4
years, and early adopters of each added their own bugs.

The hardware manufacturer provided work-arounds for their bugs to Redmond,
but meanwhile everyone else was scrabbling first to figure out how the
standards were supposed to work, and then how to work around the bugs in the
implementations of those standards.

If you're using new (non-tablet) hardware, things are much better, but if
you're using old hardware it will still sometimes be flaky, even if you're
using the latest Linux kernel.

If you are using tablet or other mobile hardware, welcome to the whole new
world of "if you don't do your power management exactly right, you screw
your battery life", where everyone outside Redmond is running to catch-up
yet again. :-(

It's like the bad old days of disk drives, using CHS addressing, and needing
separate drivers for MFM, IDE, ATA & SCSI; now at least a single driver can
handle all the common types (ATA, SATA & SCSI) and they all look much the
same anyway.

-Martin

PS: does anyone know if you still need to reserve swap space to make
suspend/resume work?

PPS: has anyone else noticed how Angry Birds chews up your Android battery?

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[Tomislav Skunca]

I think Mint is going the Gnome 3 way in the next release but they
have decent artists and aren't prone to experimentation so the UI
should be usable.

Post by Steve Withers
I dislike Unity enough I make check out Mint....
I've been Ubuntu-only for most of 5 years now, but Unity may just put an
end to that.
Unity buries all the things I use a lot too deep to bothered with. I do not
like it. But it won't go away. I tried changing to Gnome and the lock
screen stopped working and I wasn't able to login without powering the PC
off. That wasn't going to carry on...
Looks like someone at Ubuntu wants to *enforce* Unity.
F*ck that...
Steve Withers

Post by Dave Lane
Hi Robin,
Yep, using 11.10 with Unity at the moment. Didn't get on with Gnome 3
very well, so ditched it. Have managed to make Unity more or less
usable. I found a LOT of "how to" websites via Google. I suggest you
just try asking Google about what you're trying to achieve. I suspect
you'll be amazed at how many others are in a similar situation.
Cheers,
Dave

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all with
unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.
it's different enough to v2 to be annoying, and i can't figure out how
to change things - searching the web hasn't helped either. perhaps
someone can help?
is there a way to make the top and bottom panels autohide? there's no
right-click menu anymore
and how do i get back the 'system' menu?
any clues on how to add launchers to the top panel as well?
how do i get rid of the workspace switcher?
any other suggestions to make v3 more like v2?

--
http://egressive.com  Free/OpenSourceSoftware: because to share is human
Drupal powers communities: http://drupal.org Use Open Standards: w3.org
Software Patents kill innovation
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[Cliff Pratt]

Post by Steve Withers
I dislike Unity enough I make check out Mint....
I've been Ubuntu-only for most of 5 years now, but Unity may just put
an end to that.
Unity buries all the things I use a lot too deep to bothered with. I
do not like it. But it won't go away. I tried changing to Gnome and
the lock screen stopped working and I wasn't able to login without
powering the PC off. That wasn't going to carry on...
Looks like someone at Ubuntu wants to *enforce* Unity.
F*ck that...
Steve Withers

I downloaded the gnome-panel package and it just worked.

Cheers,

Cliff

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[Ben M.]

I second the motion!



________________________________
From: Steve Withers <***@gmail.com>
To: NZLUG Mailing List <***@linux.net.nz>
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nzlug] is anyone here using the new ubuntu, 11.10?

F*ck that...

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[Robin Paulson]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:49:22 +1300, Dave Lane wrote:

ah. from slashdot:
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/12/02/229251/gnome-shell-extensions-are-live

i'm not at all convinced about installing them from the browser, but
anywho, we should get back the missing functionality through this

[Tim Penhey]

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all with
unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.

Unsurprisingly I'm using the latest Ubuntu with unity.

I found unity took me a little while to get used to, but now I like it a
lot.

Tim

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[Nevyn]

Post by Tim Penhey

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all with
unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.

Unsurprisingly I'm using the latest Ubuntu with unity.
I found unity took me a little while to get used to, but now I like it a
lot.
Tim

I find the lack of categorizing applications to be a giant piece of poo.
We're not all using tablets.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
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[Tim Penhey]

Post by Nevyn

Post by Tim Penhey

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all with
unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.

Unsurprisingly I'm using the latest Ubuntu with unity.
I found unity took me a little while to get used to, but now I like it a
lot.
Tim

I find the lack of categorizing applications to be a giant piece of poo.
We're not all using tablets.

I'm not using a tablet.

What is it you can't find?

Tim

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[Nevyn]

Post by Tim Penhey
I'm not using a tablet.
What is it you can't find?
Tim

Oh I just hates it. I like my graphics applications to be in a graphics
menu and my office applications to be in an office menu (to be called up
for: one off's, prototypes or doing a half arsed job). Call me crazy or old
fashioned, but that's just how this geek rolls man.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Nevyn
for: one off's, prototypes or doing a half arsed job)

hey, that only apply to spreadsheets, the other applications in office
suites are just fine!

[Nevyn]

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Nevyn
for: one off's, prototypes or doing a half arsed job)

hey, that only apply to spreadsheets, the other applications in office
suites are just fine!
robin

Since when did you need character level formatting for documents?

Okay - there's a place for presentation software. Should it not be more ...
artsy and less word processor like? If you're using more than 5 words on a
slide, you're probably just writing up your speech cue cards which were
never meant to be seen.

Desktop database.... yuck!

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Nevyn
Since when did you need character level formatting for documents?

ok, fair point

Post by Nevyn
Okay - there's a place for presentation software. Should it not be more ...

<shudder>

Post by Nevyn
artsy and less word processor like? If you're using more than 5 words on a
slide, you're probably just writing up your speech cue cards which were
never meant to be seen.

true. i do presentations using emacs anyway

Post by Nevyn
Desktop database.... yuck!

oh, absolutely.

maybe you're right, and it does need altering.

--
robin

http://fu.ac.nz - Auckland's Free University

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[Dagan]

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all with
unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.
it's different enough to v2 to be annoying, and i can't figure out how
to change things - searching the web hasn't helped either. perhaps
someone can help?
is there a way to make the top and bottom panels autohide? there's no
right-click menu anymore
and how do i get back the 'system' menu?
any clues on how to add launchers to the top panel as well?
how do i get rid of the workspace switcher?
any other suggestions to make v3 more like v2?

I went through the transition when Fedora moved to Gnome 3 in Fedora
15, and found a lot of things didn't work the same - some still not
fixed in Fedora 16 either, like lack of option to set Terminal to open
using the "Open Terminal" keybind (you have to manually set some keys
via CLI)

My first suggestion - stop hoping GNOME 3 is GNOME 2. It's not, and it
won't ever be. You can try Linux Mint or move to XFCE, if that is an
issue - as many appear to have done. Heck some people even started using
KDE.

People use a Mac then try to make it work like Windows, and vice versa,
and we all know how useful that time sink is.

By the 'System menu', I assume you mean the administrative tools.
A number of them have been deprecated, and yet to be replaced. GNOME is
simplifying the controls a user sees, and moving a lot more into the
config via CLI. The controls they are adding tend to have less options
in the UI, more options to tweak via DConf etc.

Launchers get added on the left-side dock "Favourites" (you can
right-click application icons to do certain things), otherwise you need
an extension. Most things added to, or changed on, the top and bottom
bar are done via extensions.
They're all written using the GJS javascript, which I have heard isn't
so different, but you need a good read of documentation to tweak the
right components in the UI.

NOTE: Extensions for GNOME Shell can adversely affect the GNOME Shell
performance, especially buggy extensions causing CPU to race away.

Overall, I don't use GNOME 3 on a tablet or touchpad, and I find it
works fine once I have been using it for a while, and adjusted to how it
is intended to work.

My biggest complaint was, and still is, the default theme looks damn
ugly, takes up too much space. I recommend people try Zukitwo theme ;)

Also, try Fedora 16 LiveCD with the new GNOME 3.2 as it has some
updates and tweaks, that I am not sure Ubuntu has properly carried,
since they concentrate on Unity.

cheers,
Dagan


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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Dagan
I went through the transition when Fedora moved to Gnome 3 in Fedora
15, and found a lot of things didn't work the same - some still not
fixed in Fedora 16 either, like lack of option to set Terminal to open
using the "Open Terminal" keybind (you have to manually set some keys
via CLI)
My first suggestion - stop hoping GNOME 3 is GNOME 2. It's not, and it

i'd agree. so, i didn't hope. i asked, searched and fixed.

Post by Dagan
won't ever be. You can try Linux Mint or move to XFCE, if that is an

hmm, i'm not keen. fixing gnome 3 how i like it was easier than
installing a whole new OS. i don't want to start a DE argument, but i
always found kde to be blingy and annoying for other reasons. gnome 3 is
good for me now, i'll stick with it for the time being

Post by Dagan
People use a Mac then try to make it work like Windows, and vice versa,
and we all know how useful that time sink is.

i have good reason to demand the system fit to me, not the other way
round.

Post by Dagan
By the 'System menu', I assume you mean the administrative tools.

yes

Post by Dagan
A number of them have been deprecated, and yet to be replaced. GNOME is
simplifying the controls a user sees, and moving a lot more into the

hmm, indeed

<snip>

Post by Dagan
Also, try Fedora 16 LiveCD with the new GNOME 3.2 as it has some
updates and tweaks, that I am not sure Ubuntu has properly carried,
since they concentrate on Unity.

i'm sure they'll get added soon enough. there were several in the ppa i
added, i guess there will be more added in universe by 12.10

[Mark Foster]

Post by Dagan

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all with
unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.

*snip*

Post by Dagan

Post by Robin Paulson
any other suggestions to make v3 more like v2?

I went through the transition when Fedora moved to Gnome 3 in Fedora
15, and found a lot of things didn't work the same - some still not
fixed in Fedora 16 either, like lack of option to set Terminal to open
using the "Open Terminal" keybind (you have to manually set some keys
via CLI)
My first suggestion - stop hoping GNOME 3 is GNOME 2. It's not, and it
won't ever be. You can try Linux Mint or move to XFCE, if that is an
issue - as many appear to have done. Heck some people even started using
KDE.

As much as this is true, it's also sad. Making changes such that you
drive your audience away doesn't seem productive!

Post by Dagan
By the 'System menu', I assume you mean the administrative tools.
A number of them have been deprecated, and yet to be replaced. GNOME is
simplifying the controls a user sees, and moving a lot more into the
config via CLI. The controls they are adding tend to have less options
in the UI, more options to tweak via DConf etc.

Giant step backwards, if this is true. People were turned off Linux in
the early days due to the amount of CLI work you had to do to get things
done. Ubuntu had done a great job at making Linux accessible to those
more comfortable with point-and-click. I really hope you're not
speaking the party line here, and that instead this is just your opinion.

(An alternative approach would simply be an 'advanced settings' button
within GUI dialogues, meaning the up-front options are simplified, but
the detail is there if you want it.)

I'm still running 10.10 primarily because I wanted to keep using Gnome
2. I'm put-off Unity and actually considering OpenSUSE as my next
distro move, with the leap to KDE in the process. I'd be there already,
but the last OpenSUSE I tried didn't like my Lenovo. There's a newer
release out, and i'm tempted to try it...

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[Volker Kuhlmann]

Post by Mark Foster
As much as this is true, it's also sad. Making changes such that you
drive your audience away doesn't seem productive!

Yes, I'm shaking my head too. I call it dumbing down.

Post by Mark Foster
Giant step backwards, if this is true. People were turned off Linux in
the early days due to the amount of CLI work you had to do to get things
done. Ubuntu had done a great job at making Linux accessible to those
more comfortable with point-and-click.

Sorry to disagree. It wasn't Ubuntu that did that, it was a natural
progression and evolution of the desktops. Ubuntu just took what was
already there, and has never had anything that the others didn't have
already - or certainly not back then. (Now it has unity that the others
don't have, and popular opinion seems to be that this is a good thing.)

Stop implying that Ubuntu was the only one advancing Linux on the
desktop. It's not true.

Post by Mark Foster
(An alternative approach would simply be an 'advanced settings' button
within GUI dialogues, meaning the up-front options are simplified, but
the detail is there if you want it.)

Totally true. I always wonder what the reasons are for implementing a
do-nothing top-level and dropping all other customisations into a black
hole. Is it asking too much to put remaining options behind an
"advanced" button? What kind of user is such a UI exactly targetting?

Post by Mark Foster
I'm still running 10.10 primarily because I wanted to keep using Gnome
2. I'm put-off Unity and actually considering OpenSUSE as my next
distro move, with the leap to KDE in the process.

KDE 4 is not the same as 3, but it's reasonably similar to not feel
totally lost. There is space for frustrations though. The first thing to
keep in mind is that desktop (and panel) icons are controlled tighter,
and can be "locked", meaning they can't be changred. The unlock is a
click away, but you have to be aware of this. Default is unlocked.
Application icons on the desktop are inside an invisible container that
can be resized. Unlock everything first. If you want different icons per
desktop it's easy to turn on, but the containers for all-for-one and
each individual are all different (you can copy the files from under
~/.kde around).

As everything else, it's not bug free, and to be honest I'm a bit
disappointed that there isn't anything significantly new in KDE 4 that
really makes a difference, as opposed to just doing things differently.
It's supposed to be smal-portable-device ready though.

Volker

[Mark Foster]

Post by Volker Kuhlmann

Post by Mark Foster
As much as this is true, it's also sad. Making changes such that you
drive your audience away doesn't seem productive!

Yes, I'm shaking my head too. I call it dumbing down.

Post by Mark Foster
Giant step backwards, if this is true. People were turned off Linux in
the early days due to the amount of CLI work you had to do to get things
done. Ubuntu had done a great job at making Linux accessible to those
more comfortable with point-and-click.

Sorry to disagree. It wasn't Ubuntu that did that, it was a natural
progression and evolution of the desktops. Ubuntu just took what was
already there, and has never had anything that the others didn't have
already - or certainly not back then. (Now it has unity that the others
don't have, and popular opinion seems to be that this is a good thing.)
Stop implying that Ubuntu was the only one advancing Linux on the
desktop. It's not true.

Never said they were the only one. Just that they did it.
I'm sure others did it too, or there's no way that the GUI's in other
browsers would be as mature as they are.
What I said remains true, Ubuntu did a good job of making themselves
popular and accessible to people that might not've previously tried Linux.
(Just an opinion...)

Post by Volker Kuhlmann
KDE 4 is not the same as 3, but it's reasonably similar to not feel
totally lost. There is space for frustrations though. The first thing
to keep in mind is that desktop (and panel) icons are controlled
tighter, and can be "locked", meaning they can't be changred. The
unlock is a click away, but you have to be aware of this. Default is
unlocked. Application icons on the desktop are inside an invisible
container that can be resized. Unlock everything first. If you want
different icons per desktop it's easy to turn on, but the containers
for all-for-one and each individual are all different (you can copy
the files from under ~/.kde around). As everything else, it's not bug
free, and to be honest I'm a bit disappointed that there isn't
anything significantly new in KDE 4 that really makes a difference, as
opposed to just doing things differently. It's supposed to be
smal-portable-device ready though. Volker

This is good advise, thanks. Not sure if/when i'll actually get around
to trying it... probably whenever it is that my Ubuntu box acts as a
barrier for something i'm trying to achieve (or perhaps when 10.10 goes
out of support).

Mark.

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[Glenn Enright]

Post by Volker Kuhlmann
KDE 4 is not the same as 3, but it's reasonably similar to not feel
totally lost. There is space for frustrations though. The first thing
to keep in mind is that desktop (and panel) icons are controlled
tighter, and can be "locked", meaning they can't be changred. The
unlock is a click away, but you have to be aware of this. Default is
unlocked. Application icons on the desktop are inside an invisible
container that can be resized. Unlock everything first. If you want
different icons per desktop it's easy to turn on, but the containers
for all-for-one and each individual are all different (you can copy
the files from under ~/.kde around). As everything else, it's not bug
free, and to be honest I'm a bit disappointed that there isn't
anything significantly new in KDE 4 that really makes a difference, as
opposed to just doing things differently. It's supposed to be
smal-portable-device ready though. Volker

This is good advise, thanks.  Not sure if/when i'll actually get around
to trying it... probably whenever it is that my Ubuntu box acts as a
barrier for something i'm trying to achieve (or perhaps when 10.10 goes
out of support).
Mark.

Keep in mind that kubuntu has a somewhat customised and and dare I say
it 'dumbed down' version of kde as well. I wish they didn't do that.
IT does affect how people perceive it, upstream kde4 is a lot nicer
now than kde3 ever was. Its easy enough to use a ppa version that is
based on upstream builds though.

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[Nevyn]

Post by Glenn Enright

Post by Mark Foster
This is good advise, thanks. Not sure if/when i'll actually get around
to trying it... probably whenever it is that my Ubuntu box acts as a
barrier for something i'm trying to achieve (or perhaps when 10.10 goes
out of support).
Mark.

Keep in mind that kubuntu has a somewhat customised and and dare I say
it 'dumbed down' version of kde as well. I wish they didn't do that.
IT does affect how people perceive it, upstream kde4 is a lot nicer
now than kde3 ever was. Its easy enough to use a ppa version that is
based on upstream builds though.

KDE kind of needed dumbing down. The sheer amount of options in KDE 3 were
oft times confusing and ridiculous. I'm of the opinion that if you need
THAT much control of your desktop, you're spending way too much time on the
desktop. It is, after all, just a productivity tool to help you access
other more important things.

I really should give KDE 4 a go at some point. It, at the very least, looks
pretty.

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
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[Ben M.]

I have been using Ubuntu/Gnome for about 4 years now, with the odd foray into XFCE/LXDE ... as running full Ubuntu on Netbooks was bit of a performance/config issue.

Last weekend, I went from Ubuntu/Gnome 10.10 to Kubuntu 11.10 and sadly within 4 hours was installing Ubuntu/Gnome 11.10.

The new Plasma Interactive DM from KDE is non-intuitive, hard to config quickly and seems to be too clever for it's and obviously my own good.

To be truthful, I only grabbed Kubuntu as I use KDE's Blue Marble as a Geo-app with some Ruby-coding I do. Now I'll just install Blue Marble on it's own. Unity while bit of a pest, is a far superior UI than Plasma and the supporting Gnome Application integration into your desktop, is as always excellent..

No doubt in my mind though that the respective Unity/Plasma DevTeams seem a bit far from their user base in terms of customisation, natural User work-flow and features.
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[Robin Paulson]

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all
with unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.

wow, the issues are more significant to a lot of people than i thought:
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/11/11/1752226/linux-mint-the-new-ubuntu

mint is on the way to catching ubuntu as most popular. it's already
number one on distrowatch for page hits

who else has made the jump because of unity?

[James Paterson]

Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all
with unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/11/11/1752226/linux-mint-the-new-ubuntu
mint is on the way to catching ubuntu as most popular. it's already
number one on distrowatch for page hits
who else has made the jump because of unity?

I changed to mint because of unity. Have not yet upgraded from julia
though.

James Paterson aka rockyredhead

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[Jaco]

Tried the new "Unity" UI - I get where they're going, but don't quite
like it - yet.
I'm presently using Gnome 3 - I actually like it, not that I've gotten
used to it.

Both these interfaces represent a paradigm-shift in the way we're
interacting with desktop-systems, without expressly copying the
commercial counterparts like OS/X & windows (although there are many
similarities - convergent technology development).
IMO this is a good thing, rather than waiting for others to change the
game & leave us behind.

As for you original request, you can still access the old-style
interface by switching the preferred interface @ login:
At the login-screen, select your user, click on the gear-icon next to
the username/name & select "GNOME Classic"

Alternatively, if you're looking for the simplest,
lowest-common-denominator interface, try XFCE (Xubuntu)

- J

Post by Robin Paulson
i'm having a few issues with the new UI. i wasn't impressed at all
with unity, so i switched to gnome, which is now v3.
it's different enough to v2 to be annoying, and i can't figure out how
to change things - searching the web hasn't helped either. perhaps
someone can help?
is there a way to make the top and bottom panels autohide? there's no
right-click menu anymore
and how do i get back the 'system' menu?
any clues on how to add launchers to the top panel as well?
how do i get rid of the workspace switcher?
any other suggestions to make v3 more like v2?

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[Abhishek Reddy]

Post by Jaco
Both these interfaces represent a paradigm-shift in the way we're
interacting with desktop-systems, without expressly copying the commercial
counterparts like OS/X & windows (although there are many similarities -
convergent technology development).
IMO this is a good thing, rather than waiting for others to change the
game & leave us behind.

As a user I happen to dislike these new systems too, but I am relieved to
see that they at least meet the latest standards in buzzword compliance. :-)

[Nevyn]

Post by Abhishek Reddy
As a user I happen to dislike these new systems too, but I am relieved to
see that they at least meet the latest standards in buzzword compliance. :-)
--
Abhishek Reddy
http://abhishek.geek.nz

*LMAO* I so want to see that in a list of specifications....

Regards,
Nevyn
http://nevsramblings.blogspot.com/
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