Web Analytics...

[Rob Connolly]

Hi Everyone,

Not liking the tracking that Google analytics does I've decided its
fairly hypocritical to use it on my own site, so I've decided to replace
it with something more open, that I control.

A quick Google search turned up Piwik (http://piwik.org/), which looks
promising. I was wondering if anyone else uses this and how well it
compares to GA?

Also, what else do people recommend for this?

Thanks in advance,

Rob Connolly

[Robin Paulson]

Post by Rob Connolly
A quick Google search

oh, the irony...

have you tried https://duckduckgo.com/
?

aggregated results from google and bing, but anonymised

[Rob Connolly]

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Post by Robin Paulson

Post by Rob Connolly
A quick Google search

oh, the irony...
have you tried https://duckduckgo.com/
?
aggregated results from google and bing, but anonymised

Actually, yes I have and I've been comparing it to google in terms of
search results (it's pretty good). I think I just happened to have
another google search open at the time...
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[Bruce Clement]

Hi Rob,

I've been using Piwik for just over a year.

The latest version (1.1.1) is a great improvement over the 0.9x &
earlier versions that were current until recently. Upgrades have been
painless so far.

I run Piwik in parallel with Analytics, and find that I seldom go into
Analytics these days. The biggest thing I notice is that data display
tends to limit to 10 rows and it's difficult to get larger sets to
assist with visualisation.

On the other hand there is an API and I have the raw data in my own
database so it's only laziness that stops me coding something up.

Piwik does lack the ability to associate Adsense & Analytics data so
this might be an issue for sites wanting to maximise advertising
revenue.

HTH

Bruce

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hi Everyone,
Not liking the tracking that Google analytics does I've decided its
fairly hypocritical to use it on my own site, so I've decided to replace
it with something more open, that I control.
A quick Google search turned up Piwik (http://piwik.org/), which looks
promising. I was wondering if anyone else uses this and how well it
compares to GA?
Also, what else do people recommend for this?
Thanks in advance,
Rob Connolly
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--
Bruce Clement

Home:    http://www.clement.co.nz/
Twitter:    http://twitter.com/Bruce_Clement
Google Buzz: http://www.google.com/profiles/aotearoanz

"Before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good
appreciation of everything that already exists in this field." Mikhail
Kalashnikov

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[Rob Connolly]

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Hash: SHA1

Post by Bruce Clement
Hi Rob,
I've been using Piwik for just over a year.
The latest version (1.1.1) is a great improvement over the 0.9x &
earlier versions that were current until recently. Upgrades have been
painless so far.
I run Piwik in parallel with Analytics, and find that I seldom go into
Analytics these days. The biggest thing I notice is that data display
tends to limit to 10 rows and it's difficult to get larger sets to
assist with visualisation.
On the other hand there is an API and I have the raw data in my own
database so it's only laziness that stops me coding something up.
Piwik does lack the ability to associate Adsense & Analytics data so
this might be an issue for sites wanting to maximise advertising
revenue.

Thanks Bruce, that sounds like it might be what I'm looking for then. I
don't really need to integrate with AdSense as I'm removing that from my
site and giving AdBard a try instead.

Cheers,

Rob
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[Daniel Pittman]

Post by Rob Connolly
Not liking the tracking that Google analytics does I've decided its
fairly hypocritical to use it on my own site, so I've decided to replace
it with something more open, that I control.
A quick Google search turned up Piwik (http://piwik.org/), which looks
promising. I was wondering if anyone else uses this and how well it
compares to GA?

If you will forgive the question, I really wonder what it is that you
object to in the Google Analytics product? I figure it can't be the
analysis it allows for the owner of the site, so would guess that it
was providing aggregate information back to Google and all?

Regards,
Daniel

[Bruce Clement]

Post by Daniel Pittman
If you will forgive the question, I really wonder what it is that you
object to in the Google Analytics product?  I figure it can't be the
analysis it allows for the owner of the site, so would guess that it
was providing aggregate information back to Google and all?

I can't speak for Rob, but I switched to Piwik because I wanted access
to the raw data. I found Analytics frustrating as I could only get the
information it chose to reveal and as I drilled down in one dimension
another dimension would become opaque or I simply couldn't get the
data I wanted at the right granularity. For example Tessa sells baked
goods in Auckland and I wanted to analyse traffic only from greater
Auckland; I could see country data or "city" data, but that separated
out the North shore, Pukekohe, Waitakere etc also at that time I
couldn't get the keywords out on some cuts of the data. I knew Google
had the data & found it frustrating it wouldn't give it to me ... it
was, after all, my data.

Google have since improved their reporting, but like any closed source
solution you are limited by the imagination of the people providing
that solution.

Google is scary with the ability it has to track your surfing across
multiple sites though. Google search, Gmail, Google apps, Adsense and
Analytics track you every time you visit a page with them on, do
Blogspot and embedded Youtube or Picassa do likewise? Google tool-bar
calls home each time you visit a page ("To get the pagerank of the
page") and if that fails, they can just sent a Street View car down
your road to read your Wifi :)

Are they actually doing this? Are they using the information
effectively? The management of publicly held corporations have a legal
obligation to maximise shareholder value. If using this information
could increase shareholder value, Google would be remiss not to use
it.

None of this stops me using Google services, it is after-all the price
they charge for their "free" services and I'd rather pay them with a
little tracking information than actually pay in hard dollars.
--
Bruce Clement

Home:    http://www.clement.co.nz/
Twitter:    http://twitter.com/Bruce_Clement
Google Buzz: http://www.google.com/profiles/aotearoanz

"Before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good
appreciation of everything that already exists in this field." Mikhail
Kalashnikov

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[Daniel Pittman]

Post by Bruce Clement

Post by Daniel Pittman
If you will forgive the question, I really wonder what it is that you
object to in the Google Analytics product?  I figure it can't be the
analysis it allows for the owner of the site, so would guess that it
was providing aggregate information back to Google and all?

I can't speak for Rob, but I switched to Piwik because I wanted access
to the raw data. I found Analytics frustrating as I could only get the
information it chose to reveal and as I drilled down in one dimension
another dimension would become opaque or I simply couldn't get the
data I wanted at the right granularity. For example Tessa sells baked
goods in Auckland and I wanted to analyse traffic only from greater
Auckland; I could see country data or "city" data, but that separated
out the North shore, Pukekohe, Waitakere etc also at that time I
couldn't get the keywords out on some cuts of the data. I knew Google
had the data & found it frustrating it wouldn't give it to me ... it
was, after all, my data.

*nod* Thanks. That is the sort of answer I was looking for: the why
that wasn't immediately obvious to me, since I don't use either their
analytics on anything serious, or any of the competition.

Daniel

[Rob Connolly]

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Post by Daniel Pittman

Post by Bruce Clement

Post by Daniel Pittman
If you will forgive the question, I really wonder what it is that you
object to in the Google Analytics product? I figure it can't be the
analysis it allows for the owner of the site, so would guess that it
was providing aggregate information back to Google and all?

I can't speak for Rob, but I switched to Piwik because I wanted access
to the raw data. I found Analytics frustrating as I could only get the
information it chose to reveal and as I drilled down in one dimension
another dimension would become opaque or I simply couldn't get the
data I wanted at the right granularity. For example Tessa sells baked
goods in Auckland and I wanted to analyse traffic only from greater
Auckland; I could see country data or "city" data, but that separated
out the North shore, Pukekohe, Waitakere etc also at that time I
couldn't get the keywords out on some cuts of the data. I knew Google
had the data & found it frustrating it wouldn't give it to me ... it
was, after all, my data.

*nod* Thanks. That is the sort of answer I was looking for: the why
that wasn't immediately obvious to me, since I don't use either their
analytics on anything serious, or any of the competition.

This was basically my take on it too. The motivation for switching is
that I don't like being tracked and have taken measures to reduce the
amount of data that leaks out of my 'net connection, so I shouldn't
really subject my visitors to the same thing.

Cheers,

Rob

- --
Ubi dubium ibi libertas
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[Daniel Pittman]

Post by Rob Connolly

Post by Bruce Clement

Post by Daniel Pittman
If you will forgive the question, I really wonder what it is that you
object to in the Google Analytics product?  I figure it can't be the
analysis it allows for the owner of the site, so would guess that it
was providing aggregate information back to Google and all?

I can't speak for Rob, but I switched to Piwik because I wanted access
to the raw data. I found Analytics frustrating as I could only get the
information it chose to reveal and as I drilled down in one dimension
another dimension would become opaque or I simply couldn't get the
data I wanted at the right granularity. For example Tessa sells baked
goods in Auckland and I wanted to analyse traffic only from greater
Auckland; I could see country data or "city" data, but that separated
out the North shore, Pukekohe, Waitakere etc also at that time I
couldn't get the keywords out on some cuts of the data. I knew Google
had the data & found it frustrating it wouldn't give it to me ... it
was, after all, my data.

*nod*  Thanks.  That is the sort of answer I was looking for: the why
that wasn't immediately obvious to me, since I don't use either their
analytics on anything serious, or any of the competition.

This was basically my take on it too. The motivation for switching is
that I don't like being tracked and have taken measures to reduce the
amount of data that leaks out of my 'net connection, so I shouldn't
really subject my visitors to the same thing.

...but that answer confuses me a bit: you are talking about deploying
a hit tracking tool that is just as intrusive as Google Analytics, in
terms of capturing their behaviour on your site. It has the same (or
greater) ability to determine what is being done and why, on the site,
no?

I don't have any problem with the decision, of course, I just can't
really see how running the service on your own server is any less
intrusive to, for example, my privacy than using the Google version
is....

Regards,
Daniel

[Rob Connolly]

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Post by Daniel Pittman
...but that answer confuses me a bit: you are talking about deploying
a hit tracking tool that is just as intrusive as Google Analytics, in
terms of capturing their behaviour on your site. It has the same (or
greater) ability to determine what is being done and why, on the site,
no?
I don't have any problem with the decision, of course, I just can't
really see how running the service on your own server is any less
intrusive to, for example, my privacy than using the Google version
is....

...because it limits the scope to the two parties which have a valid
interest in the data. For the record, I think that the site owner has a
right to data related to those accessing his/her site, but shouldn't
provide that data to a third party.

Also, as the data is just from one site it can't really be used for
doing large scale profiling of individuals web habits.

Rob
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[Bruce Clement]

Interestingly enough considering the recent discussions, the local
privacy commissioner in Hamburg, Germany, has decided that Google
Analytics should be illegal.

"The free internet service Google Analytics gathers detailed
information about website visits via a user’s IP address, sending the
data back to Google servers in the United States for processing.

"According to the paper [Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung], Caspar and
data protection officials in other German states believe this practice
should be illegal."

http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20110111-32341.html
http://searchengineland.com/german-govt-says-google-analytics-now-verboten-61109

Apparently they intend fining German websites that use Analytics
(despite it not being illegal yet).
--
Bruce Clement

Home:    http://www.clement.co.nz/
Twitter:    http://twitter.com/Bruce_Clement
Google Buzz: http://www.google.com/profiles/aotearoanz

"Before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good
appreciation of everything that already exists in this field." Mikhail
Kalashnikov

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